1PM ET Wednesday update: Jeremy Mayfield has hired an attorney and it looks like NASCAR will be defending itself in court. Click here for Marty Smith's story.
6PM ET Tuesday update: ESPN.com reporter Terry Blount said on NASCAR Now that Dr. Black has now publicly ruled-out the substances in Claritin as being the ones involved in the positive Mayfield test. Black added he personally advised Mayfield of the drug in question that caused his violation.
8PM ET Monday update: Click here for AP Reporter Jenna Fryer's story of Dr. Black stating directly to her that he spoke with Mayfield personally and confirmed the substance for which Mayfield had tested positive. This came after the 5PM NASCAR Now show on ESPN2.
9AM ET Monday update: ESPN's Marty Smith confirming he will be on NASCAR Now at 5PM to update the Mayfield situation.
8PM ET Sunday update: No changes. Mayfield did suggest NASCAR wants to keep Claritin as a sponsor and he feels that played a role in their lack of information given to him.
12:30PM ET Sunday update: For those asking if Mayfield's camera crew at LMS was part of a NASCAR TV series, here is an update:
Mayfield's every move was captured by a local freelance videographer. The camera operator was approached by NASCAR Media Group, the league's television licensing arm, because he hadn't been officially cleared to shoot video during the race.
After providing his contact information, he was allowed to continue on. NASCAR owns the rights to all video captured at the track during a race weekend and reserves the right to confiscate those images if it chooses to.
Click here for the full post from ESPN.com's David Newton.
10:15AM ET Sunday update: Click here for the first video from Mayfield and a great story from Marty Smith of ESPN. Please read the story, it has some disturbing details.
9AM ET Sunday update: NASCAR fires back with PR exec. Ramsey Poston's statement: "Jeremy Mayfield was verbally informed of the substance on three occasions last week by NASCAR's Medical Review Officer."
11:45PM ET Saturday update: NASCAR.com article (click here to read) sums-up Mayfield's comments and has direct quotes. Reveals the reality of the situation as he sees it.
9:15PM ET Saturday update: Click here for the link to the Dustin Long story about his conversation with Mayfield on the drug suspension. Mayfield denies ever being told what the drug was and still has no knowledge. Probably a lawsuit coming.
8:40PM ET Saturday update: Mayfield was spotted on top of a hospitality trailer in the infield at LMS. Outstanding reporter Dustin Long then talked to Mayfield. Here is the message Long quickly sent:
Mayfield denies taking illegal drug ... says not been told by Nascar what caused positive test ... hints @ legal action
That certainly helps to understand where this issue is in the Mayfield camp. Thanks to Dustin for the info. AP reporter Jenna Fryer said she was "stunned" to see Mayfield at the track.
Update: It is not known who is advising Mayfield about how to approach this issue. Often, both a lawyer and a public relations agency get involved when someone in the public eye has to deal with a troubling situation like a drug suspension. One thing, however, remains the truth. Mayfield could quiet the entire situation with the NASCAR media with one or two well-constructed sentences. Speculation and innuendo can only be ended by one thing. That is the truth.
Click here to review the TDP story about the recent video released by the rock group Saving Abel and starring Jeremy Mayfield. In the video, Mayfield is being portrayed as a racer who is mired in an endless struggle to get back to the big time.
The irony of this video and Mayfield's recent drug suspension has not been lost on many NASCAR fans and journalists. Today, we are waiting for Mayfield's response to the most recent news from NASCAR about his suspension and current status.
Click here for the original TDP column on Mayfield and the over 100 comments from readers.
Earlier this week, Shana Mayfield indicated that she would be the Mayfield Motorsports interim owner and JJ Yeley would be driving for the team. She also said her husband would be addressing the issues currently facing him with a statement this weekend.
So far, the NASCAR media has made a mess of this story. Only ESPN has been front-and-center with the issue and addressed it on NASCAR Now from a clear-cut news perspective. The decision by SPEED to avoid it on Sunday during Wind Tunnel and on Monday during This Week In NASCAR was something that network will have to live with as the story continues to progress.
Once Mayfield issues his statement, TDP will update this column. In the meantime, please feel free to share with us your thoughts on the media coverage of this issue. This is a family-friendly website, please keep that in mind when posting.
Thanks for taking time out of your day to stop by The Daly Planet.
I never thought I would give ESPN kudos, but here goes. JD, you are so right in your statement of NN. In addition, Terry Blount also wrote a good article on how NASCAR's drug policy is actually working. Ryan McGee from ESPN the Magazine also wrote a good article stating there was no wiggle room for Mayfield.
ReplyDeleteIf you go down the list of articles on Jaski, you can see that almost ALL of them are suportive to Mayfield while anti-NASCAR. And of course the folks who respond to these site follow suit and seem to be about 99 to 1 for Jeremy and anti-NASCAR.
So it is amazing and daring for ESPN to be so even-handed on this whole issue.
I hope that Mayfield puts an end to all this today. I don't think he has to tell us what he took, he just needs to say he broke the rules, aplogize to all and say he wants to follow the rules to reinsttement.
I think the lack of transparency by NASCAR and the lack of coverage by TV makes it look suspicious. I think the TV networks that ignore the story will pay a high price in the end.
ReplyDeleteI have reaad many, not all, of the comments on the Mayfield issue. I have to say that the bulk of it has been very balanced and thoughtful. It's a credit to you that one can come here for an intelligent conversation that includes reasonable opinions, questions, as well as informed statements. Many in the media could take instruction from amny of the folks that have commented here.
ReplyDeleteI meant the comments here have been balanced, not out in cyber space.
ReplyDeleteanon 1.21
I thought the ESPN article Jayski linked on his site today that chronicled drivers being frustrated, confused, and in one case "scared" about taking over-the-counter mediciation, all due to the confidentiality of the drug testing program, was a very interesting read.
ReplyDeleteI addressed my concerns over the confidentiality of the drug testing on this blog immediately after the story broke, and now unfortunately those fears have come to fruition. Some media members and fans have already convicted Mayfield in the court of public opinion, while some have already convicted NASCAR and taken the stance that their drug testing policy is fatally flawed. As I said here the other day, that's completely unfair because one of these two parties (either Mayfield or NASCAR, we can only speculate right now which one) is completely innocent in all this but can't avoid this criticism because of the confidentiality.
There is no middle ground, someone on this side of the argument is extremely wrong here...
If Jeremy Mayfield is telling the truth then NASCAR needs to immediately fix their drug testing program before another innocent driver is wrongfully taken off the track, and Mayfield should be immediately be allowed back into the sport with the most sincere apologies NASCAR can possibly offer so his name can be rightfully cleared.
On the other hand, if Mayfield is not telling the truth then things need to get cleared up in the public immediately so everyone will know that there is nothing wrong with their drug testing program and drivers like Brian Vickers can stop being "scared" that over-the-counter medicine is causing false positives when that's not actually the case.
I think Ryan Newman stated it the best when he said "The whole system would be fixed if they just told us what Jeremy did."
If someone tests positive and wants to quietly accept responsibility and take their punishment I'm perfectly fine with not disclosing what they tested positive for. In the end it does zero good for the public to know the specific substance they admitted guilt over. All that would be left to do in that case would be to commend NASCAR and wish nothing but the best to the driver / crew member in their rehabilitation.
However, it is my personal opinion that once the suspended party chooses to publicly deny responsibility and claim the drug testing program is flawed, there is a responsibility to lay all the facts on the table. That way NASCAR can't bury their heads in the sand, cover up flaws in their drug testing program, and unjustly suspend a driver and forever give them an undeserved black eye in the court of public opinion, and (on the flip-side) that way a driver couldn't use the confidentiality to their advantage by smearing NASCAR's name by making up lies about what they tested positive for, knowing all along that NASCAR would have no way of defending themselves against that lie due to the confidentiality clause.
Well, there's been no statement from Mayfield so far but Brian France said this afternoon when he addressed the media that Mayfield's positive test was a "serious violation" and that a driver wouldn't be suspended for using an over-the-counter or prescribed drug. Associated Press article here: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/05/15/ap6429739.html.
ReplyDeleteI do find it curious that the 2 crew members suspended at the same time have apparently been wisked away by martians since I have not seen any media comments about them of any kind - almost like the system works for crew members but not for someone whose name would be recognized in a headline.
ReplyDeleteJenna Fryer tweeted today:
ReplyDeleteJennaFryer: Brian France pretty much identified the Mayfield substance as a recreational drug.
Jenna Fryer just tweeted it was a recreational drug (as somebody else ruled out performance enhancing)
ReplyDeleteOOps..anon and myself posted same time
ReplyDeleteLOL, great minds Sophia.
ReplyDeleteIt's late into afternoon and still no word from Jeremy?
This is truly a shame but I see Mayfield truly guilty of Rule 12-4-A, action detrimental to NASCAR.
ReplyDeleteWith one sentence, he has caused a furor of epidemic proportions. All he has to say is what he took and what he tested positive for. That's all. He does not have to admit ANYTHING.
Instead, he sits quietly by while his friends, his fans, family, lead everyone to believe he took Claritin. HE DOES NOT SAY IT, but he allows it to get out there.
If he really loves this sport, why not come clean?
No matter what, every driver including Ryan, Mark Martin and others say-- they all add they are still 100% supportive of NASCAR's policy. They just want to know what he tested positive for.
Today Matt said he had NO PROBLEM, and Dr Black has been very helpful. A couple of days ago Kevin, said he thought the policy was CUT AND DRY. Both have stated in VERY strong language how much they support NASCAR's policy.
I guess we don't know what NASCAR had driver's sign and if NASCAR promised contractually not to reveal details of test results. If NASCAR reveals it, maybe Mayfield could sue them.
I worked for many, many years under the DOT and we had the same type of policy. Zero tolerance. It was a big corporation, about 10,000 employees (private, not government). Becasue of HIPPA they could not release specifics, but our union would tell us, NEVER fight it. No one wins, instead check yourself into a drug rehab center (out patient or resident), and they (the union) would fight for the person's job. Some did fight it. I NEVER saw one person win on false-positive like what Jeremy says.
So much in the Internet regarding this issue is simply urban myth. It's in Mayfield's court. I hope he man's up and settles the fear in the garage.
I am kind of tired of hearing about it right now. Until hard facts come out about who is right and who is lying, I have no desire to hear any more media personalities speculate as to what it is.
ReplyDelete@ Stricklinfan82, Dot says ditto.
ReplyDeleteI'm still trying to figure out why Jeremy would jeopardize his career.
@haus20, ditto to you too.
I know it is driving the fans and media bonkers, but Jeremy needs to look out for himself first and needs to make sure he has all his ducks in a row before he takes the next step. He'll never be able to call back anything he says in public, so he needs to make sure his next step is the best one. I really do hope his error was misuse of legal substances and that the whole incident can end up being a learning experience for the sport.
ReplyDeleteFrom looking at some other sites I think it is quite a testament to TDP and its family of posters that this is almost the only place I have seen where there is reasoned conversation - at least except for some of my grousing about the media. Thank you JD.
I like Jenna Fryer, but I think it's pretty lame that it is May 15 and the best she can do at this point is make an inference from France's statement. The AP should be ashamed - they have a top beat reporter just sitting there waiting for hand-outs to report. How about a little investigating, question-asking, and follow-up already.
ReplyDeleteOh, but she Tweeted! Talk about an example of Twitter being all hype and no substance.
Well if what was identified as a banned substance that Mayfield showed up positive in his sample, why was he allowed to practice & qualify at Darlington? If it was really bad stuff (which I don't believe it was) they surely wouldn't have allowed him on the track.
ReplyDeleteWell, let me see..though NO FAN of Brian France, and taking it he WAS INFORMED, have to believe what he said to be true at this point.
ReplyDelete(Wasn't Jeremy supposed to make some announcement today? Or did I miss that)
I am also weary of all the talk about this, honestlyb but at this point, it's time for Mayfield to own up to WHATEVER.
Don't be like Pete Rose and deny for over what, 10 or 15 years he bet on baseball, when he DID...ugh.
Just get it over with Jeremy. One way or the other.
I think I am so done with this topic.
p.s. Jenna ALSO provided a link on Twitter.
Vicky, any FIRST test can be wrong, but before banning him, they wanted PROOF the 2nd test would also show FAIL!!
And if it's a drug that stays in the system a LONG TIME but you are NOT necessarily under the influence CURRENTLY(say marijuana,for example, rule of thumb used to be each joint you smoke stays in half life 7 days)
Also if the second test was hair analysis, would show something he did recently but not might have been a hazard on the track last Friday.
hope that makes sense.
ok..now I am done with this topic until we get FACTS and FIGURES and I get the results of blood work/urine/hair tests sent to me for my own two eyes to see.
Ok, just kidding.
Both Pete Pistone and Geoffrey Miller (FanHouse) have good articles.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, Dr Black said that NASCAR is not under HIPPA. It must be because everyone is an independant entitity--not an employee.
Ramsey Poston (NASCAR) said that "the creation of lists is the creation of exceptions.
I think we have all seen that MLB has not revealed what Manny tested positive for. Someone said it was female hormones and I even saw that on Jay Leno! Then today, someone else says it was NOT female hormones. NASCAR is not the only one that does not reveal the drugs on test results.
In private, Manny met with teammates on the Dodgers. Maybe Mayfield could do the same thing.
What happened to Mayfiled's statement. I think JJ Yeley is down at the track, so I have to assume that he could have delivered the statement to the media, without comment!!
ReplyDeleteHow many ducks does Mayfield have to put in a row? It's been 2 weeks since he was tested.
@VickyD-
ReplyDeleteMayfield requested that the B sample be tested when the positive came back on the A sample (which is his right) the next day. The B sample results came in Saturday afternoon.
Great comments, still waiting...
ReplyDeleteMayfiled's test timeline
ReplyDeleteTested Friday
Notified Tuesday he failed
NASCAR notified Thursday
Mayfield requested B tested Fri
Results to NASCAR/Mayfield Saturday
Although I have seen alot of discussion about what substances NASCAR tests for - have I somehow missed what they test? Urine/hair/blood? I know that the 2 samples are taken at the same time, but are they the same kind of sample? With something this serious, not only the danger on the track but also the possibility of completely ruining someones career, I would hope they would check a different kind of sample.
ReplyDeleteI'd also like for someone to ask NASCAR why all the "drama" surrounding the announcement? Jeremy didn't even make the race - it wasn't like they had to pull someone off the track. Does NASCAR have a special press conference everytime someone is suspended?
I just wonder where Jeremy is getting his advice. If he wants to come back to NASCAR, he has to adhear to the program prescribed by Dr Black. I'm sure Jeremy will not be allowed to be in denial and blame the lab for a false-positive. Dr Black has said it was a clear violation and it will be pursued.
ReplyDeleteIf he decide the price to come back is too high and just lets Shana continue as owner, poeple will always wonder.
If he sues the Aegis Labs, then ALL he is hiding right now , will come out. Every bad detail.
I think that since there is a path to return, he ought to just come clean and start the process. He could be an example of the high price you pay for taking stuff.
I checked Jeremy's web site. There is nothing, nada, zilch, on this matter. They don't even have the substitution of JJ Yeley on the team.
ReplyDeleteI take allergy meds both prescription and OTC. Would I fail a drug test?? Looks like NASCAR is not going to talk according to Jayski.
ReplyDeleteMayfield's silence is not good as we all know how vocal he is. This mess needs to be settled.
Just an FYI, we are live blogging the truck series race. Just refresh your browser.
ReplyDeleteSophia, you are so right about marijuana and half life. I think that's why people get caught. Say a driver smokes Sunday night after a race, he knows he won't be tested again til the following Friday, and thinks it will be out of his system.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunatelly for such a person, the science of toxicology has not stood still all these years. There are now test that can trace marijuana up to 14 days after smoking, especially if the person has smoked before. Some barbituates can be tested up tp 30 day later. Of course the person is no longer "under the influence", but the trace evidence is in the body.
As far as taking a risk, what can I say? Look at all the athletes that have multi-million dollar contracts and end up in jail. I'm from Chicago, and seems like when we elect a governor, first he lives in the governor's mansion and his next palce of residence is prison. Go figure why people take chances!!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteWell, Mr France just said:
ReplyDelete"There are a number of things that occur from the moment you're notified that you have a positive test of a serious manner, and then the road to be reinstated," he said. "That part of it is a very long process. But I will tell you we're in the first part of it, as I described earlier, at least with respect to Jeremy."
So, it looks like Jeremy is doing the right thing and wants to come back to racing. I guess I can give him some space and wait till he is able to tell us what really happened. At least we know he has started the process prescribed by NASCAR (Dr Black).
Pleas help us by offering your opinion of the media coverage of this issue on this TV blog.
ReplyDeleteOK Jenna Fryer just said this on twitter. But no link. What the heck does this mean? Is NASCAR getting static for allowing Jeremy to drive last Friday. I do NOT know what to make of this comment except I am confused. I thought they KNEW of FAIL thus had a second test before Darlington???
ReplyDeleteany thoughts
"NASCAR changes timeline in Mayfield testing process. Big difference now is claim they didn't know of failed test before Darlington practice"
I wonder whether a failed 1st test would have been reported to NASCAR if the 2nd test had come back negative?
ReplyDeleteTypical chicken $^@* traditional NASCAR media. As to covering a hard news story, they are pathetic. Thank God for ESPN. They aren't afraid of the NASCAR brass.
ReplyDelete@stricklinfan--Agreed. There's always the truth somewhere in every story, Jeremy is putting everything on the line claiming his innocence. Everything should be laid out and open. And if indeed there was a horrible error then things need to be fixed. If it proves that Jeremy did take drugs then it shows the system worked and that you will eventually be caught.
ReplyDeleteWell Jeremy made ESPN's SPORTSCENTER. Making SPORTSCENTER is great if you made a spectacular goal, or a last-minute 3-point basket, or a catch for the ages.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, that's not why Jeremy made it last night. It's also the reason being in SPORTSCENTER is not good for Jeremy. SPORTSCENTER is shown over, and over, and over, and over again for about 20-24 hours.
I think I have seen it about 8 times already. (Not actually seen it, but heard it. We have the tv on while we drink coffee, read the paper, eat breakfast, do chores etc.)
Anyway, Neil Everett starts out with the facts and only the facts. There's a huge picture of Jeremy and Neil recaps that NASCAR has suspended him for testing positive to a substance, and Jeremy states it's a false-positive from an OTC and prescription drug.
Then Neil states that there is little support for Jeremy from at least 2 drivers. That's true too.
Then they show a cllip of Jeff Burton. The mayor of NASCAR. One of the most articulate, well-spoken, respected, drivers in the sport. Jeff puts the whole responsibility on the drivers. He states the drivers need to be pro-active since it's their job, their reputation, etc.
Then they go to a clip of Jr. You talk about a huge contrast in personas. Jr, who just tells it like it is, who is always quptable, who is loved by the NASCAR masses, who is never PC.
Jr states something like " It don't make sense (Mafiled's excuse) Don't take drugs and you have nothing to worry about."
The end. And this will probably be played some 25 times.
It would only take a sentence or two from Mayfield to end this entire saga. Why that is not happening is the big question.
ReplyDeleteJD
I'm finding it funny that people keep refering to some 'tweets' from a reporter as gospel. Ed Hinton maybe, late great david for sure. But a tweet from some reporter about official nascar items that nascar states don't exist is not the bible.
ReplyDeleteQuick breakdown on the social networking Myspace is for 'kids', Facebook is for grown ups. Twitter are for people that feel that every thought they have is the most important thing in the world.
I to am surprised HIPAA doesnt apply as well as many other are. Any health related item should fall under that and a test is a test.
Jeremy needs to step up get it solved. If he feels it's a false positive take another test from another lab. There are many. **** or get off the pot.
Brian France needs to refer statements to someone that can articulate them in a way that doesn't raise more questions. He has proven time and time again that he should leave his foot in his mouth. Because each time it comes out turns into ??? really did he just say that.
ESPN has been good at staying on top of what is out there. Others not so much. Some not only dropped the ball but popped it and put it through a grinder.
Now a number of drivers are calling for Nascar to clarify their drug testing program. Drivers who originally came out and didn't seem to support Mayfield, namely Ryan Newman, are putting the onus on Nascar to announce the drug Mayfield tested positive for, and to shape up the testing format. Drivers such as Brian Vickers have stated their afraid to take even a vitamin because they have no idea if something as innocuous as that could show up as a positive. The print media seems to be more in tuned with this than electronic media
ReplyDeleteJimbacca,
ReplyDeleteIf you want to click on my Twitter page you will find links to ESPN, CNN and many NASCAR news and information providers.
While there is a segment of Twitter that is being used as personal communication, much of that service quickly became just a pipeline for faster information updates on single topics.
Tracking the Kyle Petty Charity Ride through Twitter has resulted in some amazing pictures and updates from the road.
JD
Some drivers seem to want to know what Jeremy was busted for. NOT BECAUSE THE DOUBT NASCAR. All the driver have said they support the policy. They not want someone who endangering them on the track. They also want to make sure they don't take something that is dangerous.
ReplyDeleteThe networks like ESPN, Fox, CBS have done the best job of reporting. They are very accostomed to athletes denying drug use after they have come out positive. These networks have not seen the drug results reversed.
Another thing is that, none of these networks are asking NASCAR to reveal the test results. They know the drill. The most recent is Manny of the Los Angeles Dodgers. NOT ONE NETWORK has asked MLB, the Dodger Owners, or the manager to reveal the test results. It doesn't matter. We know he failed the test, , will be out for 50 games, he apologized to teammates, and that's all.
Why doesn't the NASCAR media types get it. I say lack of professionalism and the want of getting some fans in a frenzy. They are also giving Jeremy a total pass.
Yes I'm still baffled that Jeremy still has not provided his side of the story. He's been protesting since the get go that he's innocent and it was the combination of the meds and that he didn't do anything wrong. Then TELL US. Whether or not HIPPA applies to NA$CAR (this is the first I've heard that it doesn't) if he truly is innocent then he needs to start speaking. His lawyer needs to prepare the statement and as stated have another lab do the test.
ReplyDelete@jimbacca--yes like JD said yes there are folks who tweet stupid stuff and what they're doing every second but there are legitimate news sources who also tweet and it's great to be able to click on a link and get information. I've enjoyed Kyle's and Montgomery Lee's tweets! They're having a blast! And it's fun seeing some of their adventure :)
But I do agree with you and wish that Baby Brian would stop talking and let someone else speak out. As I posted in the other thread, I saw the tweets come through from one of the NA$CAR sources with some of his "quotes" and I was sitting there shaking my head.
Jimbacca,
ReplyDeleteI've read tons of important local news breaks from "normal people" networking for community service, personal relationships, on TWITTER or OCCASSIONALLY promoting mom and pop businesses, festivals, bands, charities ( and it HELPS for normal peeps to see these things) So it's a fabulous opportunity to keep in touch with what you WANT to keep in touch with.
Also follow some media types but not a fan of following folks who TWEET 10-30 times an hour. or more. Indeed, get a life.
but I would not put down Twitter as it has much valuable information..as well as lots of minutia, hardsellers ONLY promoting their stuff. But in between real relationships are being made and I personally know folks flying across the country for business ventures that EXPAND their work or emailing and calling to build their businesses.
So much like most media sources, it can be mis used. :)
So ya never know.
I have gotten lots of interesting Opines on NaSCAR and the Jeremy deal.
That said, I am weary of the endless extrapolation that could be put to rest if Jeremy came forward, like JD and many others have said.
That would put this to rest.
Rain is such a drag at Indy and now Charlotte. Bummer.
Drizzling in Ohio, too. I heard there was rain across the country early this AM from Toledo to NASHVILLE and it's all moving east.
P.S. Kyle Petty's pictures and journey has been a blast to follow. Some amazing pics. And the picture some man painted of Adam was so good, it brought tears to my eyes. Wont se THAT ON TV!!! Go Kyle.
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ReplyDeleteIt does seem to me that Jeremy needs to be careful and well prepared because I believe he will have just 1 chance to speak and clear his name as much as possible. I don't think he can make a sloppy statement and hope to clean it up afterwards. Seems to me that he and his advisors need to make sure his 1 shot is his best shot.
ReplyDeleteAs to NASCAR's disclosing what Jeremy was "caught" with, it occurs to me that NASCAR will never want to do so as that could set a precedent - leading to its being in the position of having to disclose that someone was caught with illegal drugs in their system, or the inference that such was the case if for some other reason it does not want to disclose the substance. It does appear so far that NASCAR and Aegis have been much better about keeping details private than MLB or NFL.
It does seem to me that NASCAR is in something of a box - Brian F needs to speak because he's the CEO, but, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he's just not a good speaker, especially compared to Mike Helton.
JD, as usual your picture selection is amazing - and eerie. Every time I come back here the picture makes me stop. Thank you.
Have I mentioned recently how much I miss Bob Margolis' writing?
I heard statement was supposed to be around 3pm Sat... It is now 4:30pm..still waiting...
ReplyDeleteI don't think the lack of info from Mayfield is at all puzzling. He did something he shouldn't have, and can't come up wit ha good way out of it. Like I've said previously, I've been subject to random testing for most of the past 20 years-from my freshman year of college. Myself, friends, classmates and co-workers have taken hundreds of tests, randomly, after accidents, etc. I don't ever remember a false positive. The testing now is very, very good. Poppyseed bagels don't make you pop positive for heroin, cough syrup doesn't look like coke, etc. Maybe 25 years a go - MAYBE. Not now.
ReplyDeleteTo answer Anon @ 2:14, I think what this shows, hopefully once and for all, is that there are very few jouralists or reporters among what is referred to collectively as the "Nascar Media." Not everyone with a website actually has something worthwhile to say.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteThe hope was that Mayfield would either challenge NASCAR legally, admit a drug problem or offer his own documented lab data as to what he had in his system.
This is not a person who is a party guy, he is married and running a racing business. No past history and no allegations of drug use in the past.
What, when, where and why could be cleared up by him in a couple of sentences. We already know the who.
JD
Has anyone in the media spoke about HIPPA? That's the law that forbids the release of personal information. I read on Jayski's that Nascar drivers supposedly signed a waiver allowing Nascar to divulge information related to their drug testing. So I guess my question would be: Does national law preclude Nascar rules? If a driver signs away rights, does that overturn any HIPPA rules?
ReplyDeleteJD, good statement on your update statement. A simple statement from Jeremy would be sufficient.
ReplyDeleteMatt, I agree with you 100%. I too was subject to testing and NEVER knew anyone who was able to challenge a positive test.
JD, as far as Jeremy not being a party guy, that is not neccesarily the only person who would smoke marijuana or take meth or cocaine. A lot of truck drivers have been busted, they were not trying to party, just stay awake.
I taught for 12 years at a public college. The most vocal advocates of legalizing marijuana were some of the other professors, and trust me, the were not party types. Even the governor of CA is toying with legalizing marijuana, or at least studying the issue.
Let's look at say, last 5 years, there has not been a single athlete (that I can remember) who has tested positive and been able to reverse the findings, that includes those in the NFL, MLB, Olympics, cyclists, tennis, etc.
It's like fighting fingerprints or DNA. It won't happen.
Mayfield can say he's retiring or mea culpa.
darbar,
ReplyDeleteHIPPA deals with employees. First of all, Jeremy is not an employee, but rather an independant contractor. Second, it deals with health care providers. Aegis Labs and NASCAR are not health care providers.
Dr Black stated a few days ago that Jeremy did not fall under HIPPA. NASCAR has just chosen not to reveal the substance on the test.
Shana Mayfield is at the track, but talking only about the team. No statement from her husband today.
ReplyDeleteJD, do you know if anyone tried to get a statement from her?
ReplyDeleteAnother update. Bob Pockrass reporting Jeremy Mayfield is at the track and watched the first race of the night.
ReplyDeleteAP reporter Jenna Fryer says she is stunned he showed up.
Might have something to talk about after all before this night is over.
JD
As I mentioned, she said she would only talk about the team.
ReplyDeleteJD, your suggestion of Jeremy making a carefully crafted statement sounds good.
ReplyDeleteRemember this one?
"I engaged in behavior which was regrettable and demonstrated bad judgement. For this, I am sorry, I promise it will never happen again." Michael Phelps
(I had to leave out the part of being young, since Jeremy is almost 40 not 23.)
John,
ReplyDeleteI think the problem is that of the three things that people might be hoping for, only one is likely based in fact, and I think it is the one that most people are hoping it is NOT.
Update from reporter Dustin Long at the track who just talked to Mayfield.
ReplyDelete"Mayfield denies taking illegal drug ... says not been told by Nascar what caused positive test ... hints @ legal action."
Now we know where the Mayfield camp is headed, as we thought. No recreational drug use, no drug addiction issue and a legal challenge coming for the testing company.
Certainly a fascinating issue.
Sometimes I find these denials interesting. Jeremy states was not notified by NASCAR. That's right. Dr Black says Aegis notified Jeremy and NASCAR. So it looks like Jeremy is parsing words.
ReplyDeleteAs a matter of fact, Jeremy was notified 2 days before NASCAR, to give him a chance to explain and request sample B be tested.
Game on.
Isn't that what everyone says?
ReplyDeleteTotal denial and threaten law suit?
Dr Black and his lab didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and I'll put my money on the lab and NASCAR winning "IF" Jeremy is dumb enough to take it that far.
Anyone, just show me ONE case in major league sports that eventually it does not come out that the accused is actually guilty.
When they just had the college combine for NFL aspirants, they were asked about a player testing positive (don't remember who). The NFL stated they do NOT notify the player. The testing lab is the one that does that.
ReplyDeleteIn the case of NASCAR, they just notify Jeremy that he is suspended based on the report from Aegis Labs. Aegis does the contacting. A reporter that knows their craft would know what follow-up questions to ask Jeremy.
jeremy told the world what he took,a otc and prescribed medication.he thinks it caused a false positive.anyone can go on the internet and read about false positives.they happen.
ReplyDeleteHere's an article with more from Mayfield in which he claims it was Claritin-D (which is on the banned list for many other sports) and a prescription drug: http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=4172056. Says he won't be following NASCAR's rehabilitation process.
ReplyDeleteWell anon, if you choose to believe that, that's fine. You go on the internet an prove your statement. I read 2 experts from 2 different labs say that Jeremy's claim is impossible. How is it you like your crow?
ReplyDeleteWell you'll never see Jeremy back in cup if he does not go through the program
eaglesoars, can you share the names of the 2 labs? Sure, I'll eat crow if Mayfiled wins. Thought not much of a chance.
ReplyDeleteWhy no statement as he PROMISED? Why does his wife refuse to comment? Why no statement on the record?
Ok there are to many Anon. here. lol
ReplyDeleteThe one that just repied to me if you read what I wrote, it agrees with you. look just below at the anon post below your last post is who I was replying.
The first lab is Dr Black which says no way it could be a false positive, and the second was this quote from another Dr.
Yesalis doesn’t disagree that the findings of the test are legitimate. He, too, never has come across a positive test caused by the use of Claritin D, although “if somebody doubled or tripled the dose I wouldn’t want to be next to them at 190 miles per hour going into the first turn at Darlington.
we put way to much faith in authority figures in this country like doctors,preachers,police,politicians,and especially the news.i dont know if jeremy is innocent but he deserves his day in court and if nascar doesnt back off he will have it.
ReplyDeleteeaglesoars,
ReplyDeleteSorry, I used anon. You are so right about the 2 experts who said no way Jose.
Not sure who is going to fund Jeremy's suit. Since Dr Black is considered one of the best, Jeremy will have to find the 2nd best.
One thing is for sure, if Jeremy goes to court, we will find out everything about him and his medical records. If this was a normal thing for him to take, why is it that he was not flagged before? We'll know if he really has allergies. We'll find out why he waited from Tuesday til Friday, to request the B sample be tested?
anon, I'm not putting my faith in people, not even Jeremy. I put more faith in lab results.
ReplyDeletejeremy didnt wait until friday,nascar did
ReplyDeletejeremy was tested before daytona and was clean.he was tested again 2weeks ago(allergy season) at richmond and tested positive for something.
ReplyDeleteseveral funny things here, first the comment about putting to much trust in the Dr.s and Jeremy should get his day in court. Now that's funny, do you think a judge or jury knows how to take samples and do drug tests? NO it'll be a Dr that clears him or convicts him. lol
ReplyDeleteNext is saying NASCAR better back down. The funny thing is it is NOT NASCAR Jeremy has to take to court, it is the Lab he has to challange. It is the esponsibility of the Lab to defend it's findings, NASCAR is just a customer.
The next is his claim the lab has never told him what caused the test posit. BS they are a professional laboratory and I'll bet they have a receipt where he signed for his copies
more funny things:
ReplyDeleteEVERYBOBY was tested before the season started. And yes, Jeremy was clean, and so were the 2 other guys who came up positive with Jeremy this time.
The timeline for Jeremy and this fiasco has been published on quite a few publications.
May 1--Jeremy tested
May 5- Jeremy notified by Aegis he had tested positive. At this time Jeremy took no action. He could have requested sample B be tested. For whatever reason, he did not.
May 7- Aegis Labs notifies NASCAR that Jeremy positive
At this point Jeremy has the option to demand a testing of his sample B. He requests it. It puts the lab in a real jam. Most tests take 2-3 days to complete. They have to work around the clock to finish the tests.
May 8- NASCAR and Jeremy recieve results from Aegis at noon. NASCAR notifies Jeremy he is suspended. NASCAR has a press conference at 6.
New nascar.com story with a lot of words from Mayfield - but probably not the ones you wanted to hear: http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/headlines/cup/05/16/jmayfield.denies.drug.use.lowes/index.html
ReplyDeleteJM was kicked out of Lowes...I am not the biggest fan of the way NASCAR handles things-but JM really is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
ReplyDeleteApparent rebuttal by NASCAR: They say they verbally informed Mayfield three times last week about what he tested positive for. They're calling BS on Mayfield.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Mayfield was not supposed to be at the All-Star race, even in the hospitality suites.
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/05/nascar-counters-mayfields-claims
This is the only source of this information I've seen so far.
--KarenB
Interesting. Mayfield says, "I'm not going into rehab. Why would I?"
ReplyDeleteI think Jeremy must be nuts!!
ReplyDeleteHe's probably been reading all the bloggers that are anit-NASCAR and on his side. Unfortunately, they are not experts who can go to court for him. Maybe they will start a defense club for him??
I agree Jeremy might be nuts.
ReplyDeleteFirst, even if normal person was guilty, they would not be so bold as to go where they are banned from (Lowes race track)
To be so defiant and talking to reporters WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY?
I am beginning to think he is mentally ill to be walking around like he is...and to say he will NOT do rehab.
Well, he has some serious issues and they are manifested in his behavior this weekend?
I wonder who Jeremy has advising him? As I recall, he promised a statement Friday, which he did not give and I have not seen anywhere where he explained that he would not be giving a statement. Then he shows up at the track when he's been suspended and apparently admits using Claritin-D which I've read has an ingredient that is on the banned substances list of most sports. It almost sounds like his problem is just being pig-headed, and that the rules are for everyone else.
ReplyDeleteLike they say, payback is a Bit__. Just think back a few years when Jeremy got into it with Ray Evernham. That incident caused a whole lot of negative feelings, all around. And didn't Jeremy file a lawsuit against Evernham, claiming he wasn't being provided a decent race team because his owner was too busy being personally involved with Erin Crocker? Is some of this coming back to bite Jeremy in the behind? Mayfield also has a history of not appearing to get along with any of his owners. There's a lot to this story and the coming days could be interesting.
ReplyDeleteThis situation is bringing out the best in journalism. Poll question on FOX Sports - Do you believe Jeremy Mayfield or NASCAR? Yes? No?
ReplyDelete@ Richard in NC, you said it. We still haven't gotten the whole story.
ReplyDeleteThe results will be skewed. Wrong or right, NASCAR is going to look worse. Just another issue it has to deal with. I'm glad I don't work for their PR department.
Of what use is a poll question? Does it reveal the truth?
ReplyDeleteMost people believed Bill Clinton, especially when he shook his finger at the nation. Then of all things, a blue dress surfaced. I'm sure he could not believe that some gal would keep a dress for a year without sending it to the cleaners!!
These polls are meaningless.
Ramsey Poston, Managing Director Corporate Communications at NASCAR, just tweeted this:
ReplyDelete"Jeremy Mayfield was verbally informed of the substance on three occasions last week by NASCAR's Medical Review Officer."
--KarenB
NASCAR brass ought to take a page out of Roger Godell's book. Make one statement and then let the situation take its course. They cannot continue to answer to every accusation that Jeremy makes. Just say, see you in court.
ReplyDeleteI'm with all those who question what Mayfield is thinking. His career is already hanging by a thread and he shows up at the track when he's not supposed to be there with an uncredentialed camera crew - I'd think he would be doing everything in his power to stay out of trouble. It's also amazing to me that he named Claritin-D as contributing to his positive test when as someone else noted it's apparently on the banned list for other sports. And why won't he name the prescription drug that's involved if he really wants to tell his side, or is he more interested in adding fuel to the fire to those who believe NASCAR is covering for Claritin because they're a sponsor? It's also puzzling to me how he says that he was never told what he tested positive for - NASCAR says they told him three times but besides that, didn't he ask? His refusal to follow NASCAR's directives as to how to get reinstated likely means that he'll never be back as a driver or owner. Sure Mayfield got his side of the story out but I don't see how he helped himself.
ReplyDeleteI agree, Deborah. His communications just keep getting stranger and stranger. If he's playing some sort of bizarre PR game, he's doing a horrible job of it.
ReplyDeleteTrust me, I'm no fan of the NASCAR management. But in this case of "he said, they said", I'm starting to believe that NASCAR played it straight, and Mayfield is madly trying to dig himself out of a hole that continues to collapse around him.
Then again, I'm no fan of Mayfield, either.
--KarenB
Mayfield has never been able to deal with authority figures. Not Penske not Evenham, and not NASCAR. Look at tonight. The nerve of going into a restricted area (for him) and drawing attention to himself. He probably will not let a lawyer tell him what to do. What a nut case!!
ReplyDeleteI gotta say, Mayfield has really dug himself a hole now. His recent actions show he isn't taking this seriously (he showed up at Lowe's after being not only suspended but publicly castigated?!). His statements that he still hasn't been told the substance are looking downright foolish. NASCAR says he was told three times. Next, he keeps naming Claritin-D, and I bet they sue him if he doesn't shut up about them specifically. Finally, his statements just seem erratic and not how someone would be acting.
ReplyDeleteI give Mayfield two more weeks, then he will announce he is going into rehab. Then he'll be out in 60 days talking about how that wasn't the real him and how he deserves a second chance, and how he was lying because of his addiction, blah blah blah.
I hope NASCAR has the fortitude to tell this guy to not even bother with reinstatement. It's bad enough to get busted doing drugs when you are a driver, but Mayfield's recent statements are the equivalent of flipping the bird to NASCAR's entire drug testing program. I personally hope NASCAR throws the bird right back and tells him to go work at Sam's Club.
If anyone wanted proof Mayfield was on a banned susbstance, last night he proved it.
ReplyDeleteHow ridiculous to hold court with the frendly press and jukking up with the guys. Thanking the press for sticking it up to NASCAR. He is not only harmful to NASCAR, he is harmful to himself.
JD et al,
ReplyDeleteLet's remember Tim Richmond. there may be a very valid reason for Mayfield not to say what the prescription drug is.
As for what he was banned for, Mayfield was explicit in saying NASCAR has not informed him in writing, although the news stories have done an extremely poor job with that and imply that he said NASCAR has not informed him, period.
This is clearly a legalistic maneuver. If he comes out now, NASCAR can deny/change their story .. once it's in writing (and how on Earth can NASCAR not put it in writing?!?) NASCAR can't wiggle out of it.
While many of you seem frustrated and even angry that Mayfield's not being more specific, I see a good lawyer in the background (although Mayfield needs a good PR person to help him get his point across more clearly).
NASCAR cannot and should not reveal it to the public, but it's inexcusable for NASCAR to not provide him with a copy of the test results. It's inexcusable for NASCAR to not inform him in writing of the substance he's being banned for.
As for Jenna Fryer her credibility sinks lower and lower with each 'tweet'.
That was me, above.
ReplyDeleteI think Mayfield is saying (reading between the lines) that being *verbally* informed isn't enough. He wants a piece of paper. Perhaps for legal reasons, I don't know. But I think the media is just confused because the whole issue is confusing. If they are saying that HIPPA doesn't apply to NASCAR participants, and that a *doctor* is allowed to give out medical info about someone (someone who had no choice in the matter)...well, there's something wrong there. Jeremy's case aside, I think people have a right to privacy, especially if you took a drug for medical condition you didn't want people informed of (hypertension, cancer, diabetes, anything.) I don't understand why it would be legal to release that kind of info to the media without the person's permission. Again, not really about Jeremy, more about protecting the people in the sport altogether. Lots of things would not effect performance and are nobody's business. Maybe someone can explain that to me. I think this is unique because a drug test program applies to employees or potential ones--and in this case, NASCAR doesn't employ the drivers, teams do. Can the media find *anything* comparable? I have no idea.
ReplyDeleteI think Mayfield got caught up in the Catch 22 deal. Nascar says they want him to attend rehabilitation but if he's not guilty then why would he want to and have to? It's like a person pleads not-guilty to murder and the folks in the media are saying - he's not showing any remorse! Well of course not he's not guilty. I really feel sorry Mayfield because I believe he got caught up in Nascar's confusing policy.
ReplyDeleteWhile I would like to hear a statement from Jeremy, I do not think that showing up at the All Star race with a camera crew is really a step in the right direction if he wants to be reinstated. Not to mention his refusal to rehab.
ReplyDeleteWhere are some getting the idea it was "his own camera crew"? Just curious, I haven't read all the articles.
ReplyDeleteMayfield is only making it worse on himself. He knew he couldn't be on the property, that's why he did it the way he did. Remember how NASCAR came down on Tony Eury Jr during his suspension a couple of years ago when he showed up on top of an RV on a hill at New Hampshire with a laptop and a cell phone doing IMs?
ReplyDeleteWhen someone continually says and acts in a way that doesn't make sense there's a reason for it.
@anonymous 11:05 - It's in the story JD linked to at the top of the post by Marty Smith -
ReplyDeleteEvery word we shared was shot on a mini-HD cam. He wore a microphone. A television crew was documenting his every move. I inquired about it, and he said it's something he'd been working on for a while
In my opinion, Mayfield is digging himself a huge hole. If he really didnt take "illegal drugs" I think he would have taken legal action against NASCAR by now.
ReplyDeleteI think Mayfield got caught and is placing the blame on everything and anyone. If he was really innocent, I don't think we would be talking to the media and legal action would already have been taken. The fact that he showed up at the track just proves how clueless he really is.
Mayfield got caught, and now he has to pay the consequences. Unfortunatly he is acting a bit childish and is dragging out the process and making it worse for himself.
The phrase "not the brightest bulb in the chandelier" comes to mind after seeing that video. Mayfield comes out looking dumber and dumber every time he opens his mouth. I want to believe the guy and give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's making it more difficult.
ReplyDeleteI've not ever been drug tested so I don't know the procedure, but is Mayfield correct when he says the B sample cannot be from the A sample and cannot be tested by the same company? IF that's the truth, it would appear Nascar violated procedure. But if that's not the case, Jeremy just needs to come clean, so to speak, and tell the honest truth.
Building on what others have said about Jeremy and his camera crew...
ReplyDeleteI was the Anon who commented the other day that, based on past TV reality show history and their past quotes, if anyone would let cameras follow them through this, it would be Jeremy and Shana.
However, I have to admit that I'm actually shocked he is filming it. With HIS OWN videographer.
He and Shana have stated how much they love working with the NASCAR Media Group people in the past... I wonder how good that relationship will be in the future.
Marty's blog on espn.com was the first talks about the camera crew, and David Newton's article expounds on it:
"Mayfield's every move was captured by a local freelance videographer. The camera operator was approached by NASCAR Media Group, the league's television licensing arm, because he hadn't been officially cleared to shoot video during the race.
After providing his contact information, he was allowed to continue on. NASCAR owns the rights to all video captured at the track during a race weekend and reserves the right to confiscate those images if it chooses to."
LOL if NMG demands to confiscate the film in the near future... talk about drama. Especially if the suspension holds up - Jeremy will come out looking like a fool, and NASCAR will have the right to broadcast him looking like a fool. In a way, I hope they do.
Jeremy,
ReplyDeleteNASCAR has NOT said you took illegal drugs. They said you tested POSITIVE for a banned substance. Bud and Miller Lite are legal. But drivers CANNOT have them before a race. It has nothing to do with sponsorships. It has to do with safety.
No everybody who goes to rehab is a habitual user. It's to inform the person of the dangers of even the most minimal use of certain subsances.
Jeremy, Where in he penal code did you read that it is illegal for Aegis to test both samples? Tell us who passed that law? You just proved how IGNORANT you are about laws. This is a civil matter. NASCAR can hire whomever they WANT. It just happens they hired the largest such lab in the nation.
You sounded just like all the former baseball players who kept insisting on their innocence. Your odds are very slim. What a waste.
I find Mayfield's performance thoroughly unconvincing. He behavior, in my opinion, is not consistent with someone who is innocent, but with someone who is not only guilty, but too strung out to know how much trouble he is really in.
ReplyDeleteAnd I really don't think the quotes from his crew chief about how well he knows him mean anything. In fact, they mean zilch. Because if Jeremy is/was a user of heavy drugs, then he is also a) an expert liar and b) adept at hiding his affliction from those closest to him.
Every time some murdered is arrested, the newspaper has a quote from a neighbor or co-worker who says "No way, this person wouldn't hurt a fly. I would be shocked if they were involved. That isn't the person I know." And then guess what, they turn out to be guilty.
If Jeremy is using serious drugs, it would be more shocking if his crew chief actually knew about it than if he didn't/
In the interviews, why wouldn't Mayfield name the prescription drug? His initial statement said he thought a mix from a prescription and the allergy medicine caused the result.
ReplyDeleteIf he can talk about Claritin in detail - and actually say that NASCAR might not claim Claritin as a false positive trigger because it's a sponsor, then he should name the prescription. Because I'm sure an anti-doping expert like Wadler (the Olympics guru) can say to the media whether said prescription could possibly cause a positive when mix with an ingredient in Claritin.
Or is Mayfield now claiming it was Claritin only that showed up on the results and caused the positive and not the prescription? Seems he's muddying the waters and not clearing them up.
"Drowning Face Down" is so accurate. Mayfield is sinking right in front of us. The only one who can throw him a lifeline is himself. But he seems intent on self-destruction. Classic behavior of an addict.
ReplyDeleteI think the most disturbing thing of the whole Marty Smith story is that Mayfield was wearing a yellow field-pass. I mean, when he stands in line to buy this he already has to know he shouldn't be there... or else why is he BUYING A TICKET like everyone else? But, no, he buys one anyway... when has this guy ever had to pay to get in a track ever? There isn't a disconnect there when he buys entrance and reporters start running to him? He is OBLIviOUS.
ReplyDeleteWell I hate to keep making comparisons of denial but I CLEARLY remember Pete Rose saying he NEVER bet on baseball when busted in 1989..and admitted the truth in 2007 !!
ReplyDeleteNow he was a great player but clearly has issues (major denial/delusions being one)
Now if Mayfield TRULY LOVED driving (and had a 'logical manner of thinking now) even if busted for drugs, he should be saying "I am innocent and will fight this BUT if I have to go into rehab to get back in a car I will do so"
It would not be the first time a person was busted for LEGAL OR ILLEGAL drugs and or a drinking problem, thought they were fine, and went into rehab. Or might have screwed up once, got busted and never did it again. They would STILL do rehab to restore their livliehood..then write a book about "their side" later.
The DEFIANT nature of Mayfield bothers me for so many reasons I can not explain.
I'd like to think it's a freak mistake in drug testing, but twice?
Then again, I DO remember Tim Richmond's whole history.
And I do remember to freak car accidents in the last month (Edwards & Skinner) though comparing wrecks and drugs is like house shoes and hand grenades.
Still this is the most bizarre story/PR stunt to "prove I am innocent" I have seen.
In many jobs, you could just change companies. But where would Mayfield go to drive stock cars?
And, AND, what do his SPONSORS think about all of this?
I really for sorry for Claritin D makers..Mercy. You can triple dose on that pseudoephedrine (or whatever they call it now) stuff and go off the charts so technically FAIL.
Baffling this whole story
P.S. If he is innocent of drug taking he has a major Personality Disorder which would ALSO explain his history of problems with authority...sigh..judging by the bits I have seen..but I don't want to play armchair shrink.
Jeremy is lying about the B-sample testing procedure like he is lying about not being informed about the substance that caused a failure. The only thing you can count on coming out of Jeremy's mouth is that he is lying.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, The corporation I worked for, the initial notification was ALWAYS by phone. They were not going to allow someone to come on the premises or say they did not get a registered letter, or voice mail, or whatever excuse employees could come up with.
ReplyDeleteThough they may not be able to record the actual conversation, there are phone records. If there is a record that the lab from Tenn called Jeremy, and talked for x amount of minutes, what is he going to use for an excuse?
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI think the most disturbing thing of the whole Marty Smith story is that Mayfield was wearing a yellow field-pass. I mean, when he stands in line to buy this he already has to know he shouldn't be there... or else why is he BUYING A TICKET like everyone else? But, no, he buys one anyway... when has this guy ever had to pay to get in a track ever? There isn't a disconnect there when he buys entrance and reporters start running to him? He is OBLIviOUS.
May 17, 2009 12:41 PM
Yes, yes, yes. I just finished reading Marty smith's story (way to go Marty you know how to hustle!)and was stunned Jeremy bought his way into Lowe's. He obviously knew he wasn't supposed to be there when he couldn't get a credential.
And why wait until a reporter spots you and suddenly out of nowhere start spilling your guts to him and everyone else, when this guy and all the rest have been trying to get you to talk for a week? Why didn't he have a press conference at his shop Friday or Sat., or if that was too formal, stand in front of his shop and talk to reporters? I doubt reporters would have turned him down and not attended.
Whatever JM might have been taking, it appears it is messing with his common sense, too!
Mayfield's next job should be in excavation. Never seen anyone as good as he is in digging large holes.
ReplyDeleteIt's still Nascar's sandbox and this cannot end well for Mayfield.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI first and foremost want to say THANK YOU ESPN for covering the story but only showing the facts, not any hype.
ReplyDeleteI hope there is some type of misunderstanding which is causing this. If it turns out Jeremy did take something and he has been lie-ing to us all he will loose all credibility and will not be welcomed back by anyone.
Mayfield hung himself, ESPN just gave him the rope.
ReplyDeleteSophia,
ReplyDeleteI can't help but be reminded of the 1999 World Series, when Jim Gray (then of NBC) was generally attacked for his "ambush" interview of Pete Rose, for asking repeated issues about Rose's lifetime ban from baseball and the betting scandal.
Bad youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4fmEbgKeh0
The line here with Mayfield is not black and white, and perhaps he will be vindicated - but I tend to think Nascar followed through on innocent until proven guilty by waiting for the second test.
Hate to bring this up, but does anyone know if Nascar has a similar antitrust exemption to the one enjoyed by Major League Baseball.
In answer to Darbar, and telling some people more than they ever wanted to know about drug testing -
ReplyDeleteEvery time I have have ever been tested, here's how it has worked:
You get notified that today is test day, and your number came up. In college they would read the names at Morning Formation, now an email goes out to the whole company with that days names. You are given a time by which you must produce the sample, and are restricted to campus/the building until you do.
When you report to give the urine specimen a chemical is added to the toilet water and you are told NOT to turn on the sink. This prevents any attempt to water down a sample. Hand clenser is available if you want to wash up before proceeding.
You urinate into the specimen cup, finish in the toilet, but DO NOT flush. You then give the sample to the technician, who takes the temperature and tests the specific gravity. This also works against any attempt to submit anything that has not come fresh from your body. The sample is then split into two - these are the "A" and "B" samples.
The A & B samples are then sealed, and you sign a chain of custody form, which you get a copy of, showing the date, collection site, temp, specific gravity, and seal numbers. That paperwork accompanies the samples on their entire journey, to ensure that what is tested is yours.
The A + B samples always come from the same "event" and in every case I have been party to go to the same lab. If the "B" sample came from another event, the person tested would have opportunity to try masking agents, or otherwise mess around. Since the point isn't to determine if you can pass a test with notice, but rather pass a random test, it only makes sense that A + B are collected together.
I've been tested randomly at college in the 90s, randomly at work since then, and done a few scheduled tests when I have taken a physical to renew my professional license.
There is a very clear, established protocol for doing these tests. People who think/hope that it is some fly-by-night deal just don't know enough about it.
I don't expect Mayfield to come clean, because at this point I really don't think he is clean.
@Matt- Excellent account. The only difference I've ever encountered is not being notified, you find out when you show up. Also you sign the seal on both samples.
ReplyDeleteThat's why Mayfield saying that about the B sample shows he's either a liar or incredibly stupid. Chain of custody is the key to a legitimate test result.
@anonymous- MLB is the only one with an anti-trust exemption.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteYou sure have done a good job of explaining the entire process. The way random works is that is is random. Though I was subject to random testing, I've only been tested once, and it followed the path you described.
Jeff Burton stated that since the beginning of this new policy, he has been tested 3 times. He also mentioned he has called Dr Black everytime he's gone to hi physician and questioned medications suggested.
Jeremy was better off not saying anything than to be making these outlandish statements that are now on tape.
Why is no one comparing NASCAR's action in Mayfields case compared to Tim Richmond back in 88. Richmond was also banned from racing because he "tested postive". But it was actually an over the counter drug.
ReplyDeleteThis is the perfect time to call NASCAR out for their horrible actions in the past.
Sam,
ReplyDeleteNASCAR does not do tests. Labs do.
Aegis Labs were not doing the tests.
Mentioning another lab is another smoke screen. You might as well mention when women could not race, or be be a NASCAR official,--(or vote for that matter.)
Each case stands or falls on its merit. Just look at evidence.
Mayfield is counting on the uninformed NASCAR fans who already don't trust the NASCAR brass and are ignorant over how sophisticated the testing procedures are along with the how highly respected the lab conducting the tests are.
ReplyDeleteJeremy just is trying to plead his case on emotion. That is what you have to do when you do not have FACTS to back up your case.
Elena,
ReplyDeleteI think you are probably right, Mayfield is guilty.
But you miss my point. IN 1988 NASCAR made a move that banned Richmond from racing because of a "failed drug test". Turned out it was just sudafed or something.
Why has no one compared this case to that case.
I love NASCAR, but even though Tim Richmond was famous many years before I got into the sport, I feel NASCAR made a bad call then.
This would be a perfect time for a reporter to make the same case.
The point is the Richmond incident was over 20 years ago. Drug testing has advanced quite a bit since then. Its not NASCAR thats performs the tests. What happend back then isn't relevant to today.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAlso I forgot to add IMHO NASCAR learned from that lesson and do not handle the testing themselves and has a well respected Lab. handle the testing for them.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Tim Richmond was 20 years ago and not only has drug testing changed dramatically with new technology, but so have societal attitudes. Frankly speaking, 20 years ago Richmond was likely run out of the sport for fear of AIDS. Heck, even Magic Johnson was forced into sudden retirement. If that had happened today, Magic wouldn't have been forced out. At the time everyone thought he had an immediate death sentence and could pass it on to anyone. Time and infomation have made us wiser, and I don't think the type of environment that resulted in Richmond's case would happen to day.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, that was 20 years ago and this is an INDEPENDENT lab. In fact, as the largest and most highly regarded lab in the country, I don't think Aegis is willing to risk their entire business and reputation to assist NASCAR is settling backstage vendettas.
In this case, NASCAR is just responding to what they have been told are the facts. And let's not forget, there are a lot of facts in this case. None of them seems to matter to Mayfield, and he can't seem to keep any of the facts straight, but there are some facts here -- and one fact is that he has a positive test from the one company in America you do not want hear tested you positive.
Someone above said it best: Don't expect Mayfield to come clean, because he isn't clean.
There's a poll on BSPN.com regarding if NASCAR needs to publish the list of banned substances. An overwhelming yes percent.
ReplyDeleteI also read that Jeremy was asked to leave the infield. He did without incident.
@ Matt TSB, thanks for the insight.
Who pays for the tests? It can't be cheap if they are checking for a variety of banned substances.
I feel that the saddest situation would be that Jeremy just misused legal substances, but has allowed it to blow up into a giant battle due to obstinance and failure to first check with Aegis before doing so.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have read my understanding is that failing a NASCAR drug test requires meeting with Dr. Black to arrive at an appropriate program to get reinstated, which it seems to might could be as little as some counselling on what types of medicines the offender can take for his or her medical situation without any problem and when checking with Aegis would be needed. In other words, it is not clear to me that what is usually thought of as "rehab" would always be needed.
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ReplyDeleteSomething is going on here. Little disappointed SPEED/FOX has swept it under the rug because the print media and NN has been addressing it while everyone else has ignored it. I dont know what SIRIUS is saying since that option for me is a no go right now but all I can say is Im sitting back waiting to see what comes out...
ReplyDeleteDot,
ReplyDeleteNASCAR stated they pay for the tests. The same as in MLB, NFL, tennis , etc.
Thank You Matt. You made the situation a little clearer. When Mayfield spoke on this you got the impression that he wanted two different samples from two "episodes". So now I see that's not procedure in drug testing.
ReplyDeleteMatt's comments as well as some others, allows us to see how poorly informed the media is on drug testing.
ReplyDeleteJeremy is trying to win this case through public opinion. That does not work in court.
@ elena, thank you.
ReplyDeleteThis story now has a life of its own. It's going to overshadow whatever happens on the track.
OK, what am I missing here. There's an article written by David Newton that I just read on Jayski's. According to Newton, Mayfield has a "document" outlining exactly what he tested positive for. Now, according to Mayfield, he never received any written document. So what's going on here? How does Newton know there's a "document" when Mayfield insists he has no such thing? What's going on with Newton?
ReplyDeleteOn a lighter note, I guess there isn't any video of the press herd running (?) across the infield to get to Jeremy?
ReplyDeleteI was out of the room for 3 minutes but what I saw SPEED REPORT did NOT mention Mayfield's name.
ReplyDeleteDid I miss it?
elena,
ReplyDeleteThe Tim Richmond drug test had nothing to do with the disease that claimed his life.
The example was being used to say that some OTC meds trigger a positive test.
JD
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ReplyDeleteJD,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. I guess I thought that the Tim example was used to prove that NASCAR has a dark side and they "pretended" the test positive for something, but it actually was all trumped up because they wanted him out of racing. Many still think that nothing he took was banned or produced a false-positive.
I know I am drudging up the past, but let me try to be less confusing.
ReplyDelete20 years ago NASCAR went after Richmond because other drivers thought he was using drugs. (unbeknown to them he had AIDS).
He was given a drug test, and was banned from racing because he had tested positive.
NASCAR waited five days before saying that he tested positive for OTC cold medicine. FIVE DAYS.
Richmond's short career was made shorter because of NASCAR's action, and NASCAR has never come clean. Many people say NASCAR came up with its first drug testing program just to catch Richmond.
I love NASCAR,and I want them to come clean on this story. It is sad a hero from our past has been erased from NASCAR history.
All I want is for one reporter to ask one question.
"Jeremy Mayfield's story seems oddly familiar to Tim Richmond's story from 1988. Back then it took NASCAR 5 days to admit what Richmond tested positive for, and it turned out be cold medicine. After the debacle of what happened back then, why should NASCAR fans trust you this time?"
I don't recall all the details of the Tim Richmond suspension - but, as I recall, 20 years ago there was not a non-drowsy version of Sudafed, but it dried you out like an exhaust fan.
ReplyDeleteRichard
ReplyDeleteSudafed by itself is a decongestant and will NOT cause drowsiness but can speed up heartrate and raise blood pressure. however it can also cause cotton mouth, and dry out sinuses if it's not needed.
ANTI histamines cause drowsiness and often say do not use while operating machinery in warnings.
I had a longer more specific explanation here but my bleeping Firefox froze up and ate it.
Sam you can say and try to make others believe there are big similarities to the Tim Richmond case but you have been shown many differences but you don't want to see them.
ReplyDeleteThere are fare more similarities to much more recent drivers from the Nationwide series and crew people from various series that have been caught using this professional laboratory that have NOT been over turned.
The fact is I do not care if it was an over the counter drug, if the dosage taken is way over the prescribed amount it can have effects on your motoring skills.
As an example; If you take 1 dose of NyQuil, you are using it as prescribed on the package, but if you feel really miserable and take 3 or 4 doses in the same time period to knock you out to sleep you have abused that drug and it will have lingering effects on your motoring system.
That's what drug abuse means, use it as prescribed and it's fine and legal. Make a decision to use more or for different purposes or mix it with other drugs and you're abusing it and can be creating dangerous situation.
random thoughts:
ReplyDeletei'm an educated individual and this shouldn't be so tough to understand. but the conflicting accounts just don't make sense to me. for example:
mayfield says he wasn't given the results of the two tests by nascar. nascar says they told him verbally three times. so, maybe mayfield meant it wasn't in written form? but now newton states "Mayfield has the document sent to him by NASCAR outlining the results of the test." so: what's the reality here?
mayfield says the two tests shouldn't have been run on the same original sample. that is in direct contradiction to everything i've ever learned about random testing: one also takes a large enough sample to get an adequate A and B sample. the reason is/should be self-evident: if the A sample is contested, the B sample is tested. if the B sample came from a different time or via a different source (i.e A was a urine sample and B was a hair sample) there would be no scientific way to claim the B sample supported the A sample result. so: what's the reality here?
mayfield says the positive tests were b/c of the combining of an OTC and a prescription drug. various "experts" state unequivocally that there's no way that scenario could occur. this should be a clear "yes, it can" or "no, it can't" sort of scenario. so: what's the reality here?
mayfield won't identify the prescription drug and nascar says it won't either. some bloggers feel that mayfield might be embarassed to reveal what he's been prescribed, others feel he has a right to privacy and still others feel he's holding that information close to the vest until a lawsuit is filed -- or not. i can't imagine what drug he could be taking that would be worse than being called a liar and a drug abuser and is worth losing his career as a racer and owner in the sport. as for his privacy concerns, seems to me that by remaining in the sport once nascar announced the testing policy, mayfield has tacitly agreed to sacrifing his personal privacy and permitting information to be shared with the testing company and nascar. so, what he would really be attempting to protect is his right to have the information kept away from the everyone except those two organizations. "selective privacy" might be more accurate.
finally, the alleged similiaritiy between the cases of tim richmond and jeremy mayfield. for me, there is almost nothing to that, except that both have tested positive for some banned substance. richmond hid his AIDS from nascar and wouldn't permit his medical information to be shared with them. he feared, right or wrong, that he's be tossed out of the sport. he was less than forthcoming with nascar as a result.
nascar, for its part, treated him horribly and very likely looked for any way to get him out of a race car and out of the sport as quickly as possible. if his reputation had to be destroyed to do it, they certainly weren't above that.
was he actually taking sudafed as was the explanation offered by nascar for the positive test? probably not: someone in that stage of AIDS really isn't going to have any of his symptoms or pain alleviated by an OTC decongestant. was it something else, something that may have been helping him manage the disasterous effects of AIDS? to me, that's likely -- but irrelevant. bottom line is richmond had AIDS, withheld information from nascar, nascar found out the truth and panicked, just like many in society did as well at that time.
mayfield case isn't even close. mayfield case is more like shane hmiel: test comes back positive for a banned substance following a random drug test. (yes, i know shane was being tested regularly but the actual day of the test was random.)
sam, i'd love for nascar to use the questions about the mayfield controversy as a reason to come clean about the richmond case, if only to re-establish his rightful place in the history of the sport. but i doubt they ever will and in my opinion, mayfield's case is not the one to use to try and get that to happen.
final thought: no one has been able to explain to me why nascar would "frame" mayfield -- and two other individuals. mayfield just isn't a threat to nascar and, in fact, could be held up as a poster boy for single car teams trying to make it in the sport. if they wanted jeremy mayfield out, they could have done it when he was going thru that mess with evernham. THAT was an embarassment to nascar and they certainly would have liked for him to just go away quietly rather than tarnish the image of a celebrated crew chief and owner.
bottom line: i'm trusting the science in all this and the weight of that just doesn't support mayfield's position for me. he tested positive for some banned substance and he either plays by the rules or he's out. the choice is now his to make.
Sophia, I can't recall whether old Sudafed ever made me drowsy, but I do recall a prominent non-drowsy description being added to the packaging.
ReplyDeleteThere is a new post up talking about how the two Monday NASCAR TV shows might approach this issue.
ReplyDeleteJD
Red
ReplyDeleteRemember, reality is like beauty and in the eyes of the beholder. In any situation I feel there are three stories. One side, the other side, and sometimes truth is in the middle.
But this case is like Mayfield is walking around in Bizarro world oblivious to the fact his feet are in his mouth, shoelaces hanging out and saying all the wrong things. Playing the victim is one thing but playing it without laying cards on the table BEFORE NOW?
I don't see how he can clear his name.
One bad test can be a mistake.
Two, I ain't buying it.
Not unless Mayfield has another hat up his sleeve as PROOF.
Until then, somebody needs to show us the EVIDENCE.
As I posted today or yesterday Mayfields comment he wasn't going to rehab?? Well, a "rational mind driver" passionate about his LIVELIEHOOD, would say "I will do whatever it takes to clear my name and or get back into a car as a driver".
He has chosen not to say that and thus this defiant attitude, while causing many questions and makes him look like once again he is burning bridges like he has done before.
But this road he is on now is down a one way street.
But sadly, I remember the recent death of a NASCAR driver kicked out of the sport a few years ago. I hope Mayfield gets whatever help he needs in every way he needs.
I am APPALLED by some of the commentary on this issue. Mayfield's being called a liar, a drug addict, mentally ill, and more. That's simply disgusting.
ReplyDeleteI sincerely hope none of you people or a loved one ever end up in court in front of a jury of people like you.
As for those who claim that drug tests are 100% reliable, i offer up this source. I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it's very well sourced, and lists 442 substances that can trigger false positives.
I'd also like to bring up Dr. Black's comment that he is convinced that their interpretation of the results is accurate.
There is definitely a window of reasonable doubt about the test results. NASCAR's past actions provide more doubt. NASCAR's lack of an actual list of banned substances provides even more doubt. Aegis and Dr. Black's comments leave even more room for doubt.
Until we know more - what the prescription drug is and what precisely NASCAR claims to be banning him for - there's no way anyone can form a logical opinion.
This seems to be the new American way - guilty unless proven innocent. Even that's not enough for some people - the mere accusation seems to be all they need.
I clicked over to "askdrweb" and then the source page for the false positives. I chose one to look at, NOT AT RANDOM, because, well, I'll get back to that.
ReplyDeleteI picked reference 23, since it referenced Merck's website I thought it might be interesting. According to "drweb"
"Chlorpromazine - false positive for Opiates (Also false for pregnancy) (Ref: 23, 32)"
From the referenced material at Merck:
"Test Interactions
False-positives for phenylketonuria, amylase, uroporphyrins, urobilinogen. May cause false-positive pregnancy test."
Ok, everybody agrees this could cause a false pregnancy test. How about the other stuff?
phenylketonuria-a genetic disorder
amalyse-an enzyme that breaks down starch
uroporphyrins-componement in haeoglobin (part of blood)
urobilinogen - a waste product produced in the intestines.
Going back to the original "askdrweb" site, here is a quoteon their source material at the bottom:
"Source material: United States Food and Drug Administration, Medline, Physician's Desk Reference, Universities and people just like you who are concerned about the side effect of health products."
I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want someone "just like me" giving medical advice. You want 400 shipping containers moved from New York to Miami in week, or 200 pieces of machinery to Africa, I'm your guy, but you do not want medical advice from me! You can also click over to their "For Men" section to see where they seem to put a lot of their effort, and the level they are operating at.
I'm glad Razz didn't vouch for the accuracy of the site, since then I would feel like I was personally attacking Razz, but this is exactly what myself and others have been talking about. (Mis)information that people can't critically analyse, but which seems to support what they believe or want to be true, and which is then passed on. This isn't just a problem on Nascar blogs.
Just a few additional notes.
ReplyDeleteMayfield's comment about it being 'illegal for Aegis to test the second specimen may have some basis.
Although not definitive, Federal guidelines seem to indicate the 'B sample' must be tested by a second laboratory. However, even if that is true, it only applies to Federal programs and NASCAR would only fall under those regulations if they have a government contract or receive federal grant money. As far as I can tell NASCAR hasn't had an applicable contract since 2004. It wouldn't be surprising if NASCAR receives some grant money though, possibly for their diversity program.
It also says "(c) Urine specimens collected ... shall be used only to test for those drugs included in agency drug-free workplace plans and may not be used to conduct any other analysis or test ..." Again, there is some doubt whether NASCAR must abide by those guidelines (if they receive ANY federal grant money, they do. Whether they do or not, that seems to provide solid legal basis for challenging NASCARs policy of not having a list.
Note that they aren't necessarily required to list specific drugs or brand names, but appear to be able to list *classes* of drugs.
Once again Jeremy Mayfield is showing us why he should not be in NASCAR. Now granted what he said about Ray Evernham came true, but the way that he went about it was not cool and if he has nothing to hide, then why not fight it the way that NASCAR has prescirbed. He knew the rules when they started the drug testing policy this year and he just needs to shut his mouth and do whatever it takes to rightfully get back in the sport. The science will show the truth and it is obvious he has something to hide.
ReplyDeleteUsually, if a police officer clocks you on radar doing 90 MPH on the Interstate, guess what, YOU ARE GUILTY!!! Its up to you to dispute the officer's radar findings, and provide evidence as to why this particular radar gun, and the officers use of it can't be trusted.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, Mayfield failed a drug test. Its up to him to provide scientific evidence as to why the findings by the most respected lab in the industry are incorrect.
http://www.dot.gov/ost/dapc/NEW_DOCS/part40.html#e_exp
ReplyDeleteAbove is a bevy of official information for Department of Transportation workplace drug testing. These are the rules I fall under, along with truckers, railroad workers, aircrews, etc. I STRONGLY doubt that Nascar is regulated by the DOT.
Way down, it does say that when the Medical Review Officer orders a test on the B sample, the first lab has to send the sample where the MRO so orders, but I think Jeremy Mayfield claiming that there is anything illegal in his testing procedures is a gigantic stretch. Again, a little info, misapplied.
Has it even been reported with any certainty where the second sample was tested?
There is a new post up for your comments on the Monday "NASCAR Now" show on ESPN2.
ReplyDeleteJD
Here is something I just don't get. Jenna Fryer just did a nice story with quotes from Dr. Black where he stands firm and answers some critical questions about Mayfield's notification and the possibile involvement of Claritin-D. It is a must-read.
ReplyDeleteBUT - why didn't she ask the obvious question and confirm or deny one part of Jeremy's story that stands out --- that someone told him he could fax in some info and "his test result would be canceled." I guess Black does in fact answer in a round-about way that this did not happen, but since Fryer includes the accusation by Mayfield in the story, a more direct response would have been great. I'm sure Dr. Black is tired of the redundant questions. Here is a list of questions I think a better journalist would ask and include in the story:
What -is- the rate of false positives at Aegis? Is it 0% or are there instances when it happens?
Is Aegis informed in any way of NASCAR's sponsors before/during testing?
Have any of the crew members who tested positive appealed their result or claimed false positive (really, NASCAR reporters have dropped the ball because two others were busted in same round of testing and in my book over the wall crew are as important to team as drivers)
Is the unnamed substance Mayfield tested positive for one that would seriously affect his ability to drive a car?
Jeremy has offered to do a hair test. Is it more accurate than your current testing procedure and would it be able to prove or disprove your own results?
Does Aegis have any knowledge of the identity of the person's sample they are testing? Meaning is the sample marked "Jeremy Mayfield's urine" or "Sample 459AH72PL99". This makes a big difference when you talk about fairness. Has this quesiton been asked?
I could go on.... but my point is that the NASCAR reporters all seem to be hunting for something while missing the real story. If Manny Ramirez hadn't happened at the same time, a big paper might have assigned a non-garage reporter to this story, and then maybe we could get some real results.
My grade for NASCAR media on this: C-
I just read the article by Jenna F linked at the top. I think the main objection to the article is that she as well as others like Marty Smith, give equal wieght to what Jeremy and Dr Black say. I think reporters need to work harder at justifying such a tactic.
ReplyDeleteThey could start with the claim of Claritin D. Dr Black says it was not Claritin D use. Jeremy says it was. So what happens if you use Claritin D? On one article, Jeremy is said to have taken 2.
Jenna could go to Schering-Plough, the maker of Claritin D and ask about the drug. Or she could go to a site like WebMD.com like Viv Berstein, Charlotte Nascar Examiner (listed in Jayski)
WebMD says of Claritin D "This drug may make you dizzy ...use caution in activities ..such as driving." So even if he just took 2 Claritin D, not a wise move.
Last year Schering-Plough spent $3.5 BILLION in R & D. Part of what pharmaceutical companies do is instruct/warn users how to take their products. Sometime it's with food, at night or day, without alcoholic drinks, etc. I would guess they have tested Claritin D under thousands of circumstances in under to warn users. Why no quote in Jenna's article on this posibility? Makes me wonder.