Note: At this time, we are leaving this post up as our primary discussion. There are some great comments and opinions below. Please add yours to the mix.
It was a very long night for both the TV crew and the fans. The new length of the Sprint Cup Series race from PIR was a bit tough to take. It certainly was a change.
Chris Myers unveiled a new version of the Hollywood Hotel. It featured sponsors and not much more. Gone was Slice of Pizzi and a featured driver interview. In was a long bracket selection show and several features on Subway serving breakfast.
The DirecTV Head-To-Head bracket competition was modeled after the NCAA and featured the NASCAR on FOX announcers awkwardly creating seeds for the drivers. NASCAR has absolutely nothing to do with head-to-head match-ups and the entire thing was poorly explained.
Darrell Waltrip and Jeff Hammond provided the commentary in the pre-race. Waltrip chose Dale Earnhardt Jr. to win and Hammond was guarded in his comments about a favorite.
Mike Joy, Waltrip and Larry McReynolds provided the commentary during the live race. Steve Byrnes, Matt Yocum, Krista Voda and Dick Berggren were the pit reporters.
The weather did not play a factor, other than the bugs in the desert. Pictures and audio were great. An early graphics error was caught and changed. There were no technical problems.
This is your opportunity after every Sprint Cup Series race to tell us how you liked the TV telecast. This is not a fan site. We are asking about the NASCAR on FOX presentation of the race from PIR.
We are a family-friendly site, so we would ask you to keep that in mind when posting. Thank you as always for taking the time to stop by The Daly Planet.
I keep repeating this same thing over and over again. You can only do so much with what you've been given, and Fox isn't being given much to create/show a great race. These drivers are boring, the tracks are boring and the racing is way beyond boring. How is Fox supposed to put on a good production when the thing they're showing is gosh darned awful? Yes, there are still many problems that are inherently Fox's, but how in God's name are they supposed to put any excitement into a broadcast when no one cares that Nascar is dying a slow death and only the true diehards care anymore? Sorry, but I cannot blame Fox, the booth guys or the guys in the production truck for the telecasts. The problem with Nascar and TV is 80% terrible, boring racing and 20% bad production values.
ReplyDeleteI felt like I wasted the entire evening. I watched a poor broadcast of a poor race with an outcome that did not reflect the best driver performance or the best car.
ReplyDeleteThe Hollywood Hotel leaves a lot to be desired, but overall I just don't get the constant hate for the Fox crew.
ReplyDeleteEveryone seemed to love the Nashville ESPN broadcast last week, but how exciting the race was had more to do with than than anything.
That said, how great would a team of Mike Joy, Wally D. and Kyle Petty be with Larry Mac and his TNT "Open Mic"?
DW not what he once was as a racing color guy.
I'm with Darcie. I know everyone says this and all other races are awesome and amazing and we just don't see it portrayed on tv. Well, sorry, I just don't agree. This just wasn't that compelling of a race to me. The only thing I enjoyed before the last caution was that JJ wasn't the leader.
ReplyDeleteBrian,
ReplyDeleteHate? We loved them for the last three years. They were the gold standard.
Now, they stink. They don't care, shill to sponsors and talk all over each other.
If you have an opinion, say it. IMHO that was a terrible TV presentation of a top tier NASCAR race. I say that as a hardcore fan.
JD
Anon 11:54PM,
ReplyDeleteUnless you were at the track...how do you know?
JD
hollywood hotel needs to be canned. seriously its a joke thats run its course
ReplyDeleteThe broadcast was 'meh' i tuned in and out throughout the race but there wasnt alot of follow up. maybe it was during a moment i tuned out but they never followed up on: dale jr's vibration, Hamlins knee/damaged car, the S&Pers going in and out of the garage
At the end of the race they interviewed the winner, Gordon and Johnson. What about Kyle Busch? JPM? Hamlin? Junior(who finished 12 after lingering in the 20s all race) R Gordon who was..i think in the top 15 if not better. heck Ambrose had a good finish too
FOX, you use to be the best of the bunch now you're not..WTF happen :(
ah well, i still enjoy Mike Joy calling..well..auctions, races, telling stories...
Hate? We loved them for the last three years. They were the gold standard.
ReplyDeleteNow, they stink. They don't care, shill to sponsors and talk all over each other.
A-freaking-men lol.
AP Reporter Jenna Fryer on Twiter:
ReplyDelete"Thank you, Fox, for not giving us anything from Kyle Busch or giving Denny Hamlin a chance to explain why he toughed out entire race."
DW MUST GO!!!!! HE BOLDLY STATES at the begining of the broadcast that this was now a 4 tire race track, after the winner takes two he says that the teams who took 4were fooled from the previous weeks races, no mention of his own error in judgement. (this is just one example of 100 of why he must go)
ReplyDeleteoverall, the best field rundown of the season within the race. The only issue, it has no been done ONCE ALL SEASON. Why can't they do that a few time a race every race. Ohh and you still skipped cars during it...IT IS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT THE ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR!!!! SHOW EVERYONE!!!!!
I would have liked to see a little more post race too. They went to a Wanda Sykes rerun here on the east coast that they could have waited to midnight to start. How did they only have this scheduled until 11 anyway? It's not like it was delayed for weather or red flags, how did they miss by that much?
ReplyDeleteI was referring to the comments early on this season, including tonight.
ReplyDeleteI miss a lot of races, but try to catch them on the DVR. I guess I'm missing the big differences between last year and this year.
Certainly FOX has been the gold standard, but it's a pretty low bar.
As far as being shills for sponsors, this IS NASCAR we're talking about, it fits right in, in my opinion.
This should tell you how compelling the race was to me, I watched the reruns of Deadliest Catch and I turned into the race during the commercials.... Nothing I saw i the race broadcast grabbed my attention enough to make me not think about what was happening on Deadliest Catch.
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean that Jenna F was reporting on the race by watching on TV, rather than being in AZ?
ReplyDeleteRichard, that's what she tweeted. Jeff Gluck, too.
ReplyDeletePositive Notes: It was nice hearing Mike Joy call the finish of the race. He does a great job when he has the opportunity to speak.
ReplyDeleteI also liked that they updated the point standings all the way through 36th instead of just through the top 20 after the race.
Richard,
ReplyDeleteLots of the Charlotte media is not flown West because of the high cost of airline travel now.
Fryer, Gluck, Newton and others were all in Charlotte.
Steve,
Mike Joy is the best PXP motorsport guy in the world. He just needs the ability to get a complete sentence out!
JD
Daly Planet Editor said...
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:54PM,
Unless you were at the track...how do you know?
JD
April 10, 2010 11:55 PM
Same question to you and everybody else that believes we missed a great race because of Fox. I don't mean just this one. It's been a general tone. Anyway, I'll drop it. I know its all about the presentation. The race itself couldn't possibly be bad or boring.
When I was watching the actual racing that they were showing, the racing was actually pretty good. They were side-by-side a lot, the competitors were sliding into each other at times, there were some great restarts, and at the end there was a legitimate caution that created a green-white-checker finish. I didn't like that they made it longer, but I really don't know what more anyone can expect from a NASCAR race. Maybe everyone's favorite driver wasn't at the front of the pack, but can't some of ya'll just pretend he is in one of the lead cars so that ya'll will be in a better mood while watching?
ReplyDeleteAs for the TV coverage, I have a question for Mr. Daly. Could the problem with the Fox coverage this year be sponsorship distractions? I think that Mr. Joy and the others may just be too distracted to call a proper race. What with the Subway sponsorship and the gorilla-style sponsor plugs of talking about Carl Edward's Subway car when he really isn't a current story seems to take away from the flow of the coverage.
I left the discussion with about 1/3 to go and only checked on
ReplyDeletethe race at commercials during
a baseball game. I was looking for
something more exciting to watch and it was too dark to watch the
grass grow. I'm tired of the FOX
directors and their 3rd grade
aesthetics in lieu of focusing on
racing.
JD, I never realized most of the media was still in Charlotte. I thought they were there in person giving eyewitness accounts of the race. I tweeted someone last night that the coverage was so-so. Guess that sums it up but I was multitasking so just glimpsed at the tv, keeping track of my favs. Glad for RN's win and not KB or JJ.
ReplyDeleteThe race started off entertaining, but I fell asleep during the middle and didn't know how that played out until I woke up to find the 39 car in Victory Lane. Subway made an awful mistake by extending the race to 600KM, however.
ReplyDeleteDarcie, you haven't seen boring until you've seen these guys return to an intermediate, so in my book Phoenix is not a boring track. Just wait until Texas and you'll probably see FOX try to make the most out of a boring race. I would agree NASCAR's real problem is that they still have a long way to go when it comes to competition and venues.
I noticed a lot of dead air time from the PxP. I can remember at least two times where Mike Joy should of been calling it PxP, but he didn't say anything at all. This lasted for maybe 10 seconds or so. Total silence from the booth. Then either Larry Mac or DW would speak. It was like they were trying to save the broadcast because Joy was not talking. I complain about Larry Mac and DW doing the PxP. Mike Joy should be doing it. With Larry Mac and DW there as analyists from the drivers and crew chief prospective. I've actually noticed it for a couple weeks or more. No talking from Joy, then Mac and DW speak. Not sure why and it should not be that way. Has Joy been overtalked by Larry and DW so much he has given up? Maybe. But that was my observation. Other then that. It was a boring race and a boring broadcast. Though it was nice to see a new winner this year. Someone fighting to get into the Chase.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I enjoyed the race broadcast, but I am bias and easily entertained. I really enjoyed the outcome and the pit reporters were once again outstanding, especially the blonde chick.
ReplyDeleteI frequent an establishment that serves both food and drink, and I know the owners. They are HUGE race fans and broadcast the race WITH THE VOLUME UP so any and all patrons either love to watch or have to watch. But, my point is, you should have seen the puzzled and mortified looks on the patrons when the "March Madness" bracketology came on! Talk about having to find a corner to hide in. That was one of the dumbest production moves since the advent of Digger. Like JD said: Has absolutely no business in NASCAR.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the racing being boring, I have to agree to some extent. The engineers for the race teams have effectively ruined the sport (along with a few colorless drivers). When the cars go around the track like toy slot cars, there is hardly any drama to televise. But that still doesn't excuse FOX from the dreadful production that gets pumped out of their trucks(and booth) every weekend.I agree with the posting about the Hollywood Hotel. Ran it's course several years ago. Race break? Geesh. It's just an excuse to shill sponsors, and pretend it's "halftime" at the "game".And before someone from FOX posts here saying that without the sponsors there wouldn't be no NASCAR, remember the sage words from The King: Who do you think buys the products?
Now I know why the race was lengthened. It was so that we could hear more of Waldrip's drivel. Hurrah, Hurrah. I also know why it was a Sat. nite race. That is because the Master's would have eaten Fox for lunch, and dinner.
ReplyDeleteI set my DVR to record 30 minutes over the advertised race time and still missed the end of it. I'm with Mike. How could they have been so far off with the timing?
ReplyDeleteMary
Richmond, VA
I cracked up when somebody, late in a run, had a left rear tire fail and DW started talking about how they only put ten pounds of air in the tire. Somebody apparently poked him to sut him up, and then Larry Mac tried to repair the damage by saying that the 10# pressure did the damage early before it built up and then it showed up later, but it was another example of the mouth running while the brain is nt engaged.
ReplyDeleteThis is the biggest ball drop yet this season from FOX TV. Except for driver interviews, I have never seen a worse pre race than that! And the telecast of the race itself plus the ugly lack of any meaningful post race was absolutely reprehensible! You don't report on stories a whole event then IGNORE them after its over!! Nevermind chaotic commentary, if FOX doesn't get a handle on the out of control commercial breaks, there aren't gonna BE any viewers left to see them. I put this squarely on NASCAR to get out the hammer and use it on FOX... I think ESPN already has been warned and take note TNT!
ReplyDeletePIR is a great track, one of my faves, I love the racing there. What you saw on FOX didn't even TOUCH what people saw in person. If it wasn't for radio and internet access last night, I feel like I would've missed the whole race. Most stunning of all were the comments from reporters who were watching the TV race. Maybe NOW they understand what we've been saying all along!
For $356 you can buy a round-trip, non-stop ticket from Raleigh, NC to Phoenix, AZ on Southwest ($178 each way).
ReplyDeleteI can't believe the AP is that strapped for cash.
I see a good side to media being forced to stay at home for some races. If they're not at the race track, they will see the race the same way 99% of the fans do. Maybe then they will understand the reasons many fans are unhappy with the sport and are drifting away.
ReplyDeleteI am a fan of many years and do not consider myself hard to please. I have no objections to the car being raced or the current crop of drivers. Just put 43 drivers and cars on the track and show me the race. Show me the ENTIRE race of all the drivers. I know something about every driver, and it matters to me how his race is going. I care about the drivers who finish 38th, 27th, 16th, etc. I want to know what went right and what went wrong that gave them their finish.
The race is a spontaneous drama that develops before our eyes, not some scripted story with plot lines contrived by some writer. Broadcasters should follow and explain the story as it unfolds. If they would stop making predictions and sticking to story lines, they might not look so foolish.
Instead of presenting the race to fans of the sport, Fox seems to be using it as a lure to get fans for an infomercial. And some of their on-air people seem to think their mere presence is more interesting than any racing. Somebody should remind them that people watch to see the race, not to watch them and hear constant blathering.
I understand that Fox paid a lot of money for the right to broadcast races and they need to sell commercials to pay the bills and make a profit. The way they are doing it now is unfortunately too common in American business. They seem to have made decisions that improve their short term revenue performance, but it will serioulsy hurt their long term prospects. They are alienating a significant part of the audience, and some are leaving. Fox is killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
Fox may well be lazy and complacent. But from my viewpoint, it looks like rampant egos in management and some on-air personnel. It also looks like they have made a decision to parade every gimmick before the audience in an effort to generate short term revenue. The race has become an afterthought and serves only as a background.
If other media are forced to watch Fox to cover a race, they may begin to understand why fans are reacting the way they are. And if more media begin writing about Fox coverage, maybe Fox will improve. And if there is enough media criticism, maybe even NASCAR will wake up before it is too late.
to those saying the race was bad...not this particular time, but fairly frequently we have regulars who returns from what they thought was a great race only to find abyssmal coverage on their DVRs. It's happened enough that I think we generally expect the product is better than what we're seeing, though there are occasional exceptions (Auto Club speedway comes to mind...) But Phoenix historically is a very good race.
ReplyDeleteBarry--I believe the AP IS that strapped for cash, they and every other mostly print media organization. But you forgot to add hotels, meals, rental car, etc.
Barry,
ReplyDeleteIf you Google around about the AP you will be able to read about those types of issues.
JD
Since Buddy Baker's monotone days on TNN I have been muting the tv and listening to the radio. The difference the last few years is now I spend more time watching the little "cars" roll around the track on Pit Command rather than the tv. I really don't care to see the view from the edge of the track or in car cams ad nauseum. Seeing more of the field seems like what many of us want but what none of the networks are willing to give.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to see how a major sporting event should be presented, look no further than coverage of the final round of The Masters today.
ReplyDelete5 hours live on CBS.
5 live channels on Masters.com
5 live channels on DirecTV.
Much of the same content also available by AT&T's Masters iPhone app.
JD - you could do a column about this and what NASCAR fans are missing. This is how they do it every year - not just because Tiger is back.
Bill
Bill,
ReplyDeleteNASCAR is handcuffed! Not only by the current TV contract, but by the total online contract they signed with Turner.
NASCAR took the money and gave away control. Now, they are suffering for it right along with us fans.
No RaceBuddy for FOX and ESPN Cup races is criminal. No live online video means fans away from the TV cannot see the races.
How much longer they will fiddle while the sport burns is up to Brian France.
JD
My main complaint about the Fox coverage from Phoenix is it seemed to me that this was the overall worst of the year when it came to there being an almost complete disconnect from notable action on the track and what was being talked about in the booth...second would be the continuing under-use of Fox's fine stable of pit reporters.
ReplyDeleteI am still mystified as to how and why we all got what we wanted in less Digger yet the Fox telecasts are going down the proverbial porcelain fixture. Is this NewsCorp's intentional revenge for so many people hating on their beloved little furry vermin?
I hear your reasons why NASCAR does what they do - but that doesn't excuse Brian France, along with the poor TV and online product.
ReplyDeleteWe are watching The Masters on 3 TVs and 2 Laptops - It is simply awesome!!!
BTW, we are recording IndyCar for our Sunday evening viewing pleasure after Phil Mickelson wins at Augusta.
Have a nice afternoon,
Bill
Please do not ever, ever again add laps to a race! Way too long. I thought it was Subway's request for some promo. If so, I may boycott them...LOL!
ReplyDeletePre-race:
Watch for 30 seconds, FF, repeated 2 or 3 times. Went direct to race start. Nothing useful.
Pizzi - only 30 min. Bet he is back for hour show.
Brackets - ridiculous. But at least you can win something.
Race:
Actually put race on slow FF about 100 laps in, stopping if something looked interesting. Husband could not believe it!
Mike Joy - I believe David Hill doesn't want him doing classic pxp. Doesn't sound normal. With JP, he never could get the hand of pxp, not this thing. Mike is reverse. Random color comments don't work.
Hammond/Brewer tech stuff - separated at birth. Masters of the obvious.
Too much camera hopping. Few times wide long shot coming off corners. After 10 or so cars jump to single car, in cam. Hold the shot!
Embarrasing bumpers with drivers. How do they do those things and Pizzi. So sad.
No Digger appearances during race -a good thing. Dirty "digger" cam not good.
Someone said this is "entertainMENT". I disagree. It is a sport that with a good, solid broadcast would be "entertainING".
By the way. Someone else said practice qualifying was like watching paint dry. I disagree. I enjoy it because they don't do fluff and extraneous stuff. Just racing and good information. The races with the current coverage is where it is like watching paint dry.
I totally disagree with John P. re: Mike Joy's silence. He couldn't get a word in edgewise with DW flapping his jaws all night. If he was quiet for a moment, DW and LM should have been just as quiet. But no, DW and LM filling dead air 'cause they thought they should? Can't shut DW up. No wonder he had throat problems a couple years ago.
ReplyDeleteAnd his 2-tire vs. 4-tire prediction, he had to eat crow for that but he danced around it.
The broadcast last night was very disappointing. Will Fox ever learn that you can't show a pass from an in car camera? From the occasional wide shots, it appeared that there was quite a bit of close racing on the track, but once again fans at home were doomed to watch single cars running by themselves. The occasional effort to fdind the closest racing on track was wonderful, just too seldom. There were many drivers that barely got mentioned, and resetting the field in a timely manner seems beyond their reach. I respect DW, but he has to realize some day that he is no longer a driver. His 'predictions' and 'suggestions' to the drivers are embarrassing. Overall, avery disappointing night.
ReplyDeleteWe are no longer viewing auto racing, we are watching a commercial-fest.
ReplyDeleteNot only with the frequent commercial breaks but also the endless product placement. In-car cameras are NOT meant to show the race, they are meant to sell.
Last night I watched a Subway infomercial, not a NASCAR race.
Makiki
Honolulu
Karen, I think you misread what I said. I said Joy was quite and Larry and DW waited and then jumped in. Then I asked if that might be because Larry and DW have been walking all over him all season. Had Joy simply given up due to the "flapping" of DW's loud mouth. In the broadcast world, dead air = ratings declining. Just wanted to be clear, I beleive it's because DW and Larry constanstly overtalk Joy. And he may have thrown his hands in the air and given up.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting observation. Watching Indy on Speed right now. Joy is doing PxP, he's doing fantastic. And guess what. There has not been ONE picture, video etc of the broadcasters. No self promotion of the announcers.
Indy is actually showing the race. And there has not been a moment of silence on the PxP. Quite a good race actually.
You mean Bob Jenkins. But, we get the point!
ReplyDeleteAfter 12 hours of sleep and some time to think about this race I have some remarks. First and foremost I am not going to say ALL races are exciting and compelling no matter what, honestly it depends on what YOU, the individual, want from a race that makes it compelling and exciting. With that being said though, the style of racing NASCAR has put fourth for the most part since I have been a fan (somewhat 95-96, hardcore late 97) has been to me VERY quality racing. Not every race has 20 guys battling for the lead, lead changes every lap, in fact that style of racing is rare to say the least but you had an interesting dynamic last night where 3 separate guys dominated 3 separate parts of the race and neither of them won. How much more do you want from a race storyline then that. For me, it was a good race but a horrid broadcast. I can look at laptimes and intervals and get an idea of what is going on during the race (thank you Trackpass), but FOX just seemed to drop the ball all night start to finish. Head to Head was baffling to say the least, DW contradicted himself left and right, and critical reports on drivers and situations were coming in 20-30 minutes late.
ReplyDeleteBrian Vickers made the Chase last year, but was there an interview with him after his hard hit? Nope, not that I could recall. (If there was and I missed it, sorry. I was in an out of the room several times during the race) Jeff Burton pits outside his box, I spent the better part of a half hour trying to figure out how he would up from running top 12 to a lap down only to get an update from someone HERE 10 minutes before Larry Mac said something.
The images shown were disjointed several times, in the beginning of the race pictures looked good, though the incar images left alot to be desired but as the night went on the communication between booth and truck widened more and more. The booth would talk about a driver, and you wouldn't even seen them pictured on screen. They are discussing a situation that they are calling live, but your images tell an entirely different story. We even had a wreck, caution, and pit stops before FOX could even get out of a commercial break and they tried selling us down the river of stops were happening live?
How is any of that quality production?
How is it NASCAR's fault FOX missed the boat entirely?
-sigh- That was rough.
Also to my friends at PIR, yes this is a home race for me but 600k was far too long a distance to run! With what we saw, 500k would have gotten us into darkness pretty effectively. Lets can that experiment, though I appreciate the effort!
@Donna--yup that was what had me upset too. They build up Denny's knee and then ignore it at the end. From the tweets he was in pain so no he probably didn't feel like talking much, BUT I know JD was there (he was playing on Twitter) or Mike Ford could speak and give us an update. As our JD said last night those of us on Twitter obviously have the info but those fans of Denny's who don't have twitter or may not have a computer had to wait until someone somewhere posted an update.
ReplyDeleteBut Brian did put some of the TV side into perspective so do understand the affiliates side of it and TVs "hurry off" mode. But still they could have taken 30 seconds and ran credits at the bottom if necessary to update on the "big" story.
@David--you know it's a long race and a bad experiment when DRIVERS are tweeting that the race was too long!
Gymmie, it was only 375 miles, but it was because the laptimes are so long that it seemed to be a MUCH longer race.
ReplyDeletehad company from out of town last night and the race on tv in the background all night.
ReplyDeletenot one person of a group of 8 adults and 2 teens could bring themselves to watch more than 20 seconds at a time.
Frequent comment was "is THAT RACE still going on???
yup, great tv........NOT
Regarding the comments on the Masters, NASCAR only needs to do a little bit to equal them:
ReplyDelete4 channels on DirecTV
(would appreciate it if they had a "NASCAR HotPass Mix" on channel 794 or 799)
OCCASIONAL availability of RaceBuddy (we need more of that, please don't make money an excuse).
And of course, the (often abysmal) network coverage. Where's the countdown to TNT?
@David - I think you hit the nail on the head but I'll just add that DW needs to be replaced by someone like Eli Gold ASAP. He's ruining any chance of Mike Joy establishing a rhythm in the booth.
ReplyDeleteI watched 10 minutes of the broadcast and turned off the tv. I got much better coverage here and on twitter. This quote from last night best sums up my thoughts on FOX Season 10:
ReplyDelete"Now they just sit there, bs back and forth, look down at the track occasionaly and oh yea, director said there was a replay of something, let's take a look to see what we missed."
Dear FOX:
ReplyDeletePlease get over your damn selves!
NO ONE is tuning in to these broadcasts to watch your cartoon character creations.
NO ONE is tuning in to watch your fat cable pusher turned "comedian".
NO ONE is tuning in to watch your production crew fill the screen with their fancy video edits and graphics.
NO ONE is tuning in to hear your announcer's stupid catch phrases.
NO ONE is tuning in for your company's stupid fantasy game updates.
And damn sure NO ONE is tuning in to watch David Hill's beloved sponsors.
Everyone is tuning in to watch THE RACE, THE DRIVERS, THE OWNERS, and THE CREW CHIEFS!
Nothing is going to change at Fox until their employees put their MASSIVE egos aside and start broadcasting the show instead of trying to be the show.
This joke of a race went almost four hours. Yet, with the double file restarts at the end of the race, what happened the prior four hours is meaningless. Nascar insures there will be a caution at the end of the race. At Martinsvile,there were spins all day long with no cautions. Yet,when Kyle spun at the end of the race-caution. The Fox coverage was the same old,same old. Scrap all the cutaway cars. I never want to see Hammond at the cutaway car showing us what a spring rubber is under green flag conditions. The pre race bozos of Kenny and Kyle are insulting representatives of the Sport. Enough already!
ReplyDeletethe race was not that bad and at least fox makes it fun to watch. i did not like the bracket bit but denny hamlin did say in the prerace show he would decide at 50 laps to tough it out. i saw chris myers said on the internet after the race that kyle busch blew off the fox pit reporters. kyle sore loser would not talk to them at the time.
ReplyDeleteI have a complaint that, as far as I know, has not been brought up yet but which applied to me personally.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason, FOX chose to schedule the program to fit a 312-lap race when they knew that it had been extended to 375 laps. I was not home when the race happened and had to record it on my DVR. Even with my acceptance of a half-hour overrun, it was a close call whether or not the entire race would show up when I played the recording back. When Scott Riggs lost a tire and caused the eventual final caution, that meant that I would be unable to see the finish - and all that led up to it - on the finished product.
I had to watch The Final Score sportscast on FSN to see the finish, and did not know the full-field rundown until I watched NASCAR Victory Lane in the last hour.
Shame on FOX for that alone!
These drivers are boring, the tracks are boring and the racing is way beyond boring.
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding? Go to a race. They're just as exciting in person as they always have been. What you see at home is NOT what you see at the track.
It is really unfortunate that Fox has now committed itself to that stupid "bracket" deal for the rest of the time it has races.
ReplyDeleteDoes no one there understand that brackets don't work in this sport?
Or that we don't need to them trying to crate artificial excitement by using them?
It's embarrassing.
I have tried to go to the DirecTV website and read the bracket contest rules several times.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, there has been a lot of time and effort put into something that makes no sense.
ESPN tried this kind of thing back in 2007 and it was a disaster. There are simply no head to head match-ups in this sport, period.
As we has so often seen in recent races, the last couple laps tell the tale.
This might be the best example of a stick-and-ball format trying and failing to translate to NASCAR that we have seen in a long time.
Get ready for a lot more of it during the FOX run.
JD
oops! "have seen"
ReplyDeleteAnon at 9:41 - I agree. The race in person is an entirely different animal than what's showing up on Fox.What a shame.
ReplyDeleteI fell asleep during the Phoenix race. No kidding. I'm sure it wasn't the race but the broadcast.
I'm actually a fan and player of fantasy racing games but they have absolutely no place at all on the actual race broadcasts. Fox has gone WAY overboard with their on-air integration of fantasy games this year, just like they did with the Digger and Friends disaster last year.
ReplyDeleteThis concept could actually be a great new innovative challenge of a NASCAR fan's knowledge of drivers' abilities at different tracks... but for the fact that one of the four races they chose was the Talladega lottery. Sad that Fox has turned an interesting idea for a fantasy game of skill into nothing more than a random game of flipping a coin.
Unfortunately even the Fox NASCAR Internet group doesn't get it.
Wish Fox would cut down on the pre race coverage and use it after the race with the drivers, that's when they might say something of interest or air their beefs with other drivers, nascar, or goodyear. But they seem to think that we only need to hear from 2 or three drivers. In fact I hate the hour of pre race stuff. Start the broadcast just before the command to stsrt engines. But the racing isn't interesting in this IROC car......
ReplyDeleteIF EESPN is in fact going after the NCAA basketball tournament, hopefully that will convince NASCAR that it needs to do like other major sports and create its own cable network to be in a position to have more control of its distribution.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunatly NA$CAR and anything associated with it is all about the MONEY!!
ReplyDeleteIt was a huge disappointment to see Petty Enterprises have to put decaling for alcohol on his racecar. How much subsidary money did he pass up for years because he refused to put the "BUSCH" decal on his equipment?
I like many of you don't listen to the televised version of the race, but listen to the radio broadcast. I am sick of hearing DW spouting off! He acts like he knows everything about these cars, when he hasn't been behind the wheel of these new cars in race conditions. So what makes him the expert, these cars do not drive or handle like anything he has driven.
I have tapes of races from the late '80s and up. If there was not much action at the front of the pack, they showed where the best action on the track was, be it for 15th, 27th or 38th. The commentators did not give plugs for a particular brand of car or for a race team. The commentators didn't wear clothing that bore the logo of sponsors.
The Hollywood Hotel should be parked next to the big HOLLYWOOD sign on the side of the hill over looking LA, never to be heard from again. DW's phrase of BBB LGRB's should find the same hole that Digger got lost in. DW actually took legal action against a Hobby shop owner in Nova Scotia Canada for daring to use the word Boogity, and its not about money or ego?
Joy needs 1 other PxP in the booth with him and some hard charging pit reporters, which would be getting back to basics.
Yes, the races are far better live at the track than the TV broadcasts.
Some observations:
ReplyDeleteI'm glad I kept my "multitasking" setup developed for the ESPN segment of the Cup season from last year, otherwise I would be feeling the pain of many Planeteers evidenced through so many of the comments left on multiple columns. Of three computer monitors operating during a Cup race, one follows a leaderboard, the second follows TDP and the third follows Twitter(when Racebuddy is active, either the leaderboard or Twitter is omitted depending on what is being shown). The computer is also streaming MRN/PRN, while the TV is on with on-screen captioning, allowing me to switch from online radio/tv broadcast as necessary.
Yes, I agree that the FOX/SPEED team has grown a little long in the tooth, but, looking over many of your past columns from the last couple of years, it seems that with the total disorganization of ESPN and the pre-Racebuddy TNT, we gave the gold standard to FOX because they were the most deserving. Now that TNT with RB and ESPN have gotten their act together(we hope!), we see FOX in a new light, not because they've changed anything much but rather that what was very good to us before isn't as good as we made it out to be in comparison.
I don't have a lot of trouble with some of the on-air talent like DW or RW. They are just making observations or sometimes hogging the broadcast, but they're okay if you remember some so-called "experts" on NASCAR like Erik K. or Suzy K. or Brent Musberger!
As far as the rodent, I have a popup program that, as I'm multitasking, brings up occasionally on one of the monitors the clip of Racebuddy securing the manhole cover over Digger (just for a comic relief!).
PS: won't insert the link, but the WASHINGTON POST has a delightful story about Lindsay Czarnick in this evening's internet edition. Search for it and enjoy!
Anon at 8:47pm wrote
ReplyDelete"Nothing is going to change at Fox until their employees put their MASSIVE egos aside and start broadcasting the show instead of trying to be the show."
Actually, the only way to stop this is for you and all uf us to stop watching FOX.
Unless Nielsen ratings tumble, FOX Execs will make the argument that they are right and we are wrong
I was unbelievably bored by this race broadcast. Mike Joy is one of the best PXP guys out there, but he hasn't been doing that this season. DW and Larry Mac talk TOO much and what they are saying doesn't match up to what the cameras are showing. DW continually acts like he can read the drivers minds when he hasn't ever driven this car in competition. My suggestion - Shut up, DW, and let Mike call the race. Then there are all the "toys" and trick shots that the production truck seems so in love with. I just want to see the race and that means longer wide angle shots so the viewer has a frame of reference for the action on the track. All I can tell from the in car most of the time is what the drivers dash and helmet look like and that isn't why I tuned in.
ReplyDeleteI'm still having to use trackpass and the radio to be able to follow the race.
Whoever thought adding laps to a race was a good idea, well, it was a bust. I couldn't believe how long it took to get to halfway and all I wanted was for the race to be over. I finally went to bed - taking my computer with me and watched the final 20 laps from there -- it seemed to me that the camera work got better and Mike Joy was calling the action. But why can't it be like that for the whole race? Plus DW was totally wrong about it HAVING to be 4 tires.
The Hollywood Hotel is useless -- I know NASCAR is all about the sponsors, but I don't tune in for it and I've given up on watching any of the prerace garbage because it's just that, uninformative and a waste of my time.
I have a run next week that I'm doing for charity so I probably won't be home when the Texas race starts and since nice weather has finally arrived on the east coast and based on how unhappy I am with the race coverage that Fox is providing, I'm not going to rush home to see it. I'm not sure that I'll watch a lot of the races on TV until TNT gets here with racebuddy.
I think Brian France, Helton, and Darby should be forced to sit and watch the races ONLY on TV and then see if they still tell the fans how "great" the racing is.
Maybe it is, but you can't tell it by the broadcast and that is how the majority of race fans "see" the race.
Anon 11:54 -- PERFECT Summary!
ReplyDeleteI didn't think the race coverage was all that bad. I think the race itself was not that good and the broadcast suffered because of it. Adding to the length of the race was a big mistake too.
ReplyDeleteNo leave the typo. We "has seen" it all!!!
ReplyDeleteJD: How much longer they will fiddle while the sport burns is up to Brian France.
Bingo. I'm done trying. It isn't on us the fans to deal with the BS. Again, I put it on NASCAR to unscrew this TV mess.
Kudos to SPEED for filling in many of the post race blanks with Victory Lane. Never so happy to see a show on! Best post race there is, along with NASCAR Now Roundtable. Both these shows follow up with the major stories in a race, when network falls short. Denny's paleness when he gave his brief interview to SPEED after the race spoke volumes. And I finally got to see the happy owner Stewart congrat the 39 team.
JD, Bob Jenkins huh. I was wondering if I was wrong, but knew someone would point it out if I was. Lol. Wow, Jenkins and Joy sound exactly alike. Just goes to show how much Indy didn't show, advertise, and talk about the announcers and paid attention to the action on the track. Sorry for the mistake there, but they sure do sound the same, and simply didn't show them.
ReplyDeleteI do wonder why Indy on Speed/Fox is so different from Nascar on Speed/Fox.
I'm not sure how much further I can hold out against DW's thinking he is a Nascar god. He has simply become a dotard and needs to leave the broadcasting booth.
You know, Donna in FL, you are exactly right. It isn't on the fans to fix this mess and those that can, have in JD's words "fiddled while the sport burns". Although I'm not sure that its burning any more, so much as fizzling out. I guess it's what happens when you sell your soul for a buck.
ReplyDeletethe only thing that makes me feel better is that since JD started this blog, I know I'm not alone in what I'm seeing on TV.
I'm watching way less Nascar this year than I did in previous years. When they started on that bracket crap in the pre-show I just turned the TV off. I had the live leaderboard up on the computer while I did other things. I recorded the race but just fast forwarded to the last 15 laps.
ReplyDeleteNeed to vent a little :-) Just read Jeff Gluck's article on TV coverage at Phoenix.
ReplyDeleteBefore responding to his 3 points.
1) He admits to not normally watching on TV because he is at the track. So DVR a few races and compare the coverage to what you actually saw.
2) He obviously doesn't read TDP regularly or he would know we mostly raved about FOX before they went off the reservation last year. We love TNT. We were very positive about ESPN at Nashvile and highly complementary of Marty Reid & Ricky Craven. Also, putting JP back on pit road.
A couple of comments about his comments. Only in caps to differentiate. I am not yelling :-)
1.I don't have the technical TV knowledge to analyze camera angles or how Fox covers pit stops, etc.
HELLO? YOU NEED TECHNICAL EXPERTISE TO KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE WHEN WATCHING A RACE ON TV? CAN'T EVEN THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY.
2.I've been in the TV production truck before and can tell you first-hand how difficult of a job they have to pick the right shot or balance commercials with live racing.
THIS IS THEIR JOB! THEY ARE PAID TO DO EXACTLY THAT! SOME HOW IT WAS DONE IN THE PAST. TNT DOES IT. ESPN DID IT AT NASHVILLE. FOR THE MOST PART SPEED DOES IT WITH TRUCKS.
3.While I agree that listening to Darrell Waltrip can be annoying at times, I doubt a different analyst would have dramatically enhanced the broadcast for me.
I MAY AGREE WITH JEFF ON THIS ONE. FIX THE DIRECTING AND CAMERA WORK AND MAYBE WE WOULD BE LESS ANNOYED WITH THE BOOTH.
JD, unlike Jeff, you actually have experience in this arena, so he knows not what he speaks of (or something like that...LOL!)
Nascar signed the contract to let these broadcasting fools at ESPN in the last two years basicly run down Nascar. Yes, ESPN is better this year. Not sure it counts anymore if their better this year or not. Also, Nascar signed the contract to let FOX this year run down Nascar. Worste then I could ever ever imagine.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Does no one think Nascar approved this Bracket Stuff before it aired? I don't. Nascar had to approve it. OR their total fools for having that lack of control over their product.
Bracket Stuff now has a new meaning to me. It's called BS.
Hope you head over to SBNation and leave Jeff some comments on his blog topic. Glad he brought it up.
ReplyDeleteWhen does the current NASCAR TV contract end along with the Internet rights with Turner? Those both need to be handled as one package.
ReplyDeleteI don't see NASCAR wanting to give up any money. The networks have to shove all of these sponsorships down our throats in order to break even. They need to pay their bills too.
Forget about side-by-side commercials until advertisers are willing to pay the same amount for a commercial that covers less than half the screen, as opposed to the full screen. This isn't IRL which doesn't bring in nearly as much in the way of TV revenue.
I'd love to see races streamed. CBS has figured it out with both the Masters and the NCAA Basketball tourney. ESPN does it quite a bit as well. NBC does it with Sunday Night Football. It would appear any issues of lower TV ratings, and thus lower advertising rates have been handled in those cases.
The Turner contract needs to expire. I don't see NASCAR paying the $$$$ to figure a way to modify this contract in order to get a product out to the fans. NASCAR doesn't care about the fans.
JohnP said:
ReplyDeleteI noticed a lot of dead air time from the PxP. I can remember at least two times where Mike Joy should of been calling it PxP, but he didn't say anything at all. This lasted for maybe 10 seconds or so. Total silence from the booth.
I guess I don't have a problem with this. For the last 9 years, I'm been asking for a little respite from the constant talking from the Fox booth!
And as those saying people have loved Fox for the last three years, maybe on this site, but not myself and the people I actually talked to at races. The old ESPN was "the gold standard" and NBC with Bestwick, Dallenbach and Parsons was the closest thing we have had to that in the last 9 years.
I'm wondering what took all of you so long to see how bad Fox has been for the sport. I have hated their coverage and shilling since they took over, and had to endure all of you praising them and telling me how great they are.
ReplyDeleteNothing has changed at Fox since they took over from ESPN back in 2000, but for some reason you all have come to your senses and seen the light. I say welcome to reality and I hope to see Nascar rid of Fox at some point in the future, and it's time for DW to use his rocking chair that Dale Sr. gave him when he retired from his weekly provisionals.
I'm back. Ok now Jenna Fryer is focused on the short post race show. That is all well and good because that has been one of our complaints. Long prerace with a lot of much about nothing. Limited post race.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Phoenix is not unique and this wasn't a one time issue. Yes, maybe the race ran long. But looks like they didn't add time for the extra laps. And....here is the real issue. Whenever they are up against their time window, we rarely get a post race that goes past that time frame. Only if they haven't interviewed the winner and 1 or 2 of the top finishers.
FOX's excuse was weak, IMHO.
I am glad that Jeff and Jenna are picking up on things...but I was too frustrated by the race a whole lot about the lack of post race.
Thanks again JD. Venting here is helping my mental health :-)
Sorry, must have your laptop, JD.
ReplyDelete...but I was too frustrated by the race "TO CARE" a whole lot about the lack of post race.
And where was the press criticism of EESPN the past 2 seasons?
ReplyDeleteIsn't it interesting that some of the media members who spent the past 3 years berating the fans for complaining about the tV coverage have now 'seen the light' once they had to try to follow a race on TV? What would they think if they had to follow an entire season left to the whims of the networks instead of being at the track, able to know what was going on because they can SEE it in front of their noses? Guesss we weren't as stupid as they thought we were.
ReplyDeleteI don't like how Jenna Fryer actually asked the Fox producer for his side of how the post race show happened. I like it better when JD just speculates, since he once worked in a TV.
ReplyDeleteI just finished watching the dvr version of the race. No we no longer stay in to watch - we will when TNT takes over - the weather is too nice now & TV production @ Fox has jumped into the bathroom fixture.
ReplyDelete3 laps under green flag conditions for Hammond & A race car rotisserie? Please shades of TB.
When did NASCAR races start being measured in kilometers? Silly us we thought it was miles & laps... duh
Is DW paid by the word?
Mike Joy needs to tell him to shut up. Please just once before the end of the Fox segment...Mike please tell DW shut up!
Wile on the subject of DW -with the economy the way it still is - why not get a racer who no longer has a ride to replace him? Someone who has driven this "new" car or its previous "older new" car? Just a thought...
Postrace - & the lack of seeing all the lead lap cars cross the finish line. Cripe I'm tired of repeating that one.
Same for no bumper,bummer, in car, wheel, & any other non multiple car showing cam. Racing involves more than 1 car at a time.
Thank you for making me repeat myself again.
How long till
TNT?
Anon 9:55PM,
ReplyDeleteThat's not my role and will never be. Fryer is a professional reporter who is paid to report on NASCAR.
This blog has been the fan voice where NASCAR TV is concerned for the last four seasons. No one here makes a dime. There are no ads and no money changes hands.
We should be glad that two reporters, forced to watch a race on TV, finally saw the tip of the TV issue iceberg.
I highly doubt that either one of them cares what lurks beneath the surface.
JD
Wow - 2 real reporters write about nascar tv and they get blasted here. imho i prefer to read their reports and articles rather then feast on the speculation that fed here on a daly basis - after all when was the last time this board offered info based upon solid reporting, interviewing, and researched info from an event - reality is this is about opinion which everyone is entitled to including the blogger - however is the a big difference between opinion and facts - just my opinion
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:14AM,
ReplyDeleteDespite your years of harrassment, we are not going to change. The entire format of this blog is to watch TV, pass along information provided by the TV networks and offer opinion.
Once again, you are confused. Gluck and Fryer only saw these issues because they were put in the position of the TDP reader. They were fans watching on TV.
It's great that Fryer took the time to call and follow-up because she personally experienced the feelings and frustrations NASCAR fans have had for years now.
Just as I pointed out in my original answer, we are not the working media and have no desire to be. Perhaps, the PIR issues might alert them to the fact that TV is the way 99% of NASCAR fans see the races.
It's nice that they are normally there in the Infield Media Center, but that certainly does lead to a skewed version of priorities where NASCAR TV is concerned.
JD
Jojaye...
ReplyDeleteThe Phoenix races, and I think the Sonoma races, have always been in kilometers.
Bad Wolfe is right. Most of what we are getting from Fox is what they have been dishing out since 2001. The only dropoff from that is Mike Joy talking less and sounded less enthused and not going to the pit reporters that much during the race. The old ESPN coverage was the gold standard, not Fox.