This is the post-race location for comments on Sprint Cup Series coverage. Here are the details.
Sunday, the NASCAR on ESPN team covered the Sprint Cup Series race from Talladega, Alabama. The weather was good and there were no technical problems.
Allen Bestwick started the day with a one hour pre-race version of NASCAR Countdown from the Infield Pit Studio. Joining him were Ray Evernham, Rusty Wallace and Brad Daugherty. They offered conversation, interviews and several pre-recorded features.
Jerry Punch handled the play-by-play for the race. Dale Jarrett and Andy Petree were alongside in the TV booth. The pit reporters were Shannon Spake, Jamie Little, Vince Welch and Dave Burns.
The race had a new emphasis on bump-drafting and potential penalties from NASCAR. The early racing became single-file. The final fifty laps featured the regular kind of two and three wide racing that we normally see at Talladega. There were two big accidents toward the end of the race. Both featured cars flipping over.
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In all fairness, I don't think I can give a grade that would fully count on this race. ESPN was faced with a very unusual circumstance due to the last-minute rule change and, at times, offered some very nice visual coverage. They also made some of their usual errors and abominations of how a sporting broadcast should be presented. I still hold out hope that changes will be made in the off-season by both ESPN and NASCAR that will improve what we saw today in all areas. However, this is definitely the last time this season that I will watch a race live and not whiz through all of the commercials (which is what I have been doing for most of ESPN's portion of the schedule).
ReplyDeletePossibly the worst race I've ever seen, and I've seen a WHOLE lotta races. Even though Mikey made it up to 6th, it still stank. Fire ESPN too!
ReplyDeleteVery underwhelming race, which predictably got an underwhelming finish.
ReplyDeleteCongrats to the 48 for staying out of the way and backdooring his way into a top 10 finish and effectively clinching title #4.
Nascar got what they wanted.
ReplyDeleteESPN did a much better job than I thought they would. Lots of wide shots that were great on my tv, and not as many screw ups as they usually do. The main problem though was not the race, but NASCAR and their rules. This wasn't a race, but a demolition derby waiting to happen. Ryan is really lucky that Harvick was underneath him and Mark is right in being upset. I really can't say much about ESPN as the sanctioning body, much like Bernie Ecclestone, has become consumed with greed to the point of frustration. At least Bernie tries to give us a good product.
ReplyDeleteLooking for your comments on the ABC coverage provided by the NASCAR on ESPN team.
ReplyDeleteESPN/ABC has the worst NASCAR broadcast around.. and it's the CHASE for goodness sake!
ReplyDeleteTodays race just showed how bad they are. I would have loved to see coverage of the entire race - so much going on that we didn't have find out about.
press conference on NASCAR.com website. Jimmy is sitting in the middle of the table with Joey and Casey
ReplyDeleteThis was definitely a strange race, maybe due to Nascar's last minute rules 'change'? ESPN did a creditable job using more long shots to keep track of the field, but when they strung out in single file, the booth seemed to have a hard time trying to figure out what to say. The up side of that was they covered more cars than just the chasers for a change. That was a definite plus. I have issues with how they cover pit stops and how long it takes to reset the field, but overall they did better than usual.
ReplyDeleteI cannot judge the quality of TV fairly because the race itself was so poor. This maybe the worst race I have seen in my 35 years of fandom.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone (except Jamie) was a winner this afternoon.
My turn (as if the fan ever really gets a turn except on this website)
ReplyDeleteNascar and ESPN/ABC take note:
1) We found out today that the problem with cars going airborne at Talladega was certainly not due to bumping in the corners.
2) Nascar's "rule changes" for today made for a lousy race. Nascar should be ashamed.
3) Everything Ryan Newman said in his post-crash comments at the infield care center were right on!!
4) ESPN/ABC finally had something to talk about with the drivers today and left the air promptly! (I'd love to hear the spontaneous utterances of the drivers before their media reps and Nascar get to them)
5) Nascar, why should I watch the next three races??? Your golden boy, Jimmie Johnson, is stickin' up the show..Now what?
Thanks to the Daly Planet for giving us a place to vent. I hope the Nascar POWERS are listening!! (That Utter guy would stand to read a few of these posts. It may help his "journalism" be more fair and balanced...just sayin')
This was one of those races that was odd. But brains always beats brawn, and our NFL games this week assigned to our CBS and Fox affiliates weren't "quality". Since we didn't get The Revenge Game (we're stuck with CAR-ARZ), the race was the only thing worth watching.
ReplyDeleteESPN is always the one criticised for everything and I wonder the difference between Fox/Speed and ESPN.
The thing about this race was Brains versus Brawn and brains won out. The "brain" in that the guy who took the lead gently was the one who won when all of the "brawn" crashed showed what won out. Wasn't it Max Papis who once compared Sprint Cup racing to a cross between endurance racing and rallies? This was an "endurance" race.
I'm not going to comment on the broadcast as a whole. I'm going to comment on how ESPN/ABC left things.
ReplyDeleteI understand that things were messed up at the finish with the wreck, but there is still the "unofficial results". But rather than ESPN/ABC showing us that, they showed us the "unofficial standings".
And I still don't know who was all involved in that last wreck. ESPN/ABC didn't bother to give a rundown of the cars involved.
I understand that they ran out of time, but perhaps if they cut the pre-race to a 30 min rather than an hour, they could have scheduled a post-race show. But that would make too much sense. <rolling eyes />
The Good:
ReplyDelete- Infield Studio: No suprise, always on top of their game
- Jamie Little: Did well today
- Use of some wide shots and blimp shots
- Attempting to do their best when the cars were in a single file parade.
The Bad:
- The usual issues (tight shots, bumper cam overuse no reset, play-by-play chaos, etc), just read the race thread. No use repeating everything from the past 3 months
- Horrible excuse of a race
- The Jimmie Johnson lovefest at the end was horrible. As they were 2 & 3 wide in the front, we were stuck watching Jimmie Johnson by himself in 33rd with a Dave Burns pit report EVERY 5 MINUTES. I want to see the 3 wide battles, not the points leader hiding in the back. Speed did a great job balancing the race and Championship yesterday. They did not overuse the radio communications, crew chief shots, single truck shots.
I am hopeful for change in 2010 for ESPN. The Nationwide broadcasts show me there is potential. ESPN just has to move the pieces around until they fit.
This just in. Dupont is now sponsoring JJ. Showing off their new product. Teflon car paint and driver suit material.
ReplyDeleteGlad Ryan & Mark walked away.
When's that NASCAR town hall meeting?
This race completely sucked. It was boring and the only excitement comes from wrecks? Nascar needs to do something. Make Talladega a 50 lap race or something. As far as ESPN goes, GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE AND STAY WITH FOOTBALL AND ALL THE OTHER SPORTS!!!!! The only reason Jamie McMurray was interviewed is because he won. All ESPN cares about it Jimmie Johnson. The 2nd and 3rd place finishers didn't even get tv time. And don't even get me started on Mark Martin...all he could say was I don't know. COME ON AND BE A REAL MAN! Criticize Nascar or do something. Get mad! We all do it from time to time. I'm giving props to Jeff Gordon just because he was a smart a** and made me crack up. All in all I am tired of ESPN and their Jimmie Johnson show. There was racing all over a couple of times and they focused on the fact that he was racing in the back 'biding his time'. Maybe those words should have been the drinking game phrase. I'm seriously thinking that for the next few races I need to start out drunk before ESPN goes on air that way it won't bother me in the least when they have their crap coverage. I would seriously rather watch Digger cartoons than what ESPN puts out. Punch please resign and take Brewer with you. You completely bore me with your monotonous attitude.
ReplyDeleteI actually witnessed a network cover a major sporting event & they LEAVE THE AIR without a finishing order ??
ReplyDeleteThey left the air WITHOUT any kind of finishing order !!
Hoots - Helton - Darby - Pemberton - ESPN/ABC you amaze me !!
Can you imagine any other sport ending their coverage WITHOUT knowing the final score ??
Kasey has to win the race, in order to score an interview. What happened to the old days when they talked to 1st - 5th place. They wouldn't interview Jamie McMurray but they were told they have to because he won.
ReplyDeleteWe are lucky we have Hotpass and we were actually watching MM's car. Boy, was Mark miffed or what? And Ryan Newman. My guy ran out of gas so was a non-factor in the race. The Hotpass booth was very enthusiastic although I don't like the superspeedways as much as the smaller tracks. Texas ought to be interesting wonder if Nascar will come up with some new rules by green flag at Texas.
ReplyDeleteMy comment about firing ESPN has more to do with the on-air "talent" than the production of today's race: there were more wide shots and split screens than I remember, and the overhead blimp coverage was especially effective.
ReplyDeleteBut how many times do they have to either repeat what they said themselves, or repeat what one of the others in the booth just said?
And there's this with 35 to go: "Yeah they told us before the race they'd start to go maybe with 30 to go." And with 23 to go: "Yes, he said he'd be ready to move with 20 to go." And with 15 to go: "Man, let's get to some racing here!"
Or words to that effect.
Granted ABC/ESPN does a lousy job but I am more pissed at NASCAR. Either fix this or eliminate Talladega from the schedule!
ReplyDeleteThe lousy coverage stems from:
1) ABC/ESPN is more interested in promoting their other shows than in covering the race
2) They do not understand that the fans want to know what is going on in the race - not some pre-arranged, scripted feature.
3) Whomever is in charge of which camera angle is being shown needs to learn that when an announcer says "Trouble in Turn 2", he/she should immediately switch to the camera covering that angle. (I'm not sure they even know which camera is covering what.)
There are other issues but at this point I'd probably earn a penalty for "piling on" - LOL
I know that the announcers make mistakes and sometimes make us want to "punt" them, but most of the time they are constrained by what the network is telling them to talk about.
The GOOD - Ryan & Mark are okay along with the other 41 drivers; we have TDP to let us voice our opinions; JR led the race some; and it was a beautiful day; JJ proved to me that he is not a TRUE RACER at all for if he was, he WOULD have been up there in the front like all of the other TRUE racers were...it's instinctive and in there blood and he is obviously lacking...not noble or skill to me to lag behind.
ReplyDeleteThe BAD - ESPN's coverage was horrible despite NASCAR's rule change (you could swallow your pride and look at SPEED TV's CWTS race from 10/31 as the 'how to' show...
Once again..thank you TDP!
I've got three words to say to ESPN/ABC and NASCAR. WHAT A JOKE.
ReplyDeleteI'm too pissed to say anything else right now. Sorry excuse for a race and sorry excuse for a broadcast.
The coverage of the last 20 laps wasn't bad,why ESPN can't show the whole race this way?
ReplyDeleteESPN needs to give JJ his own channel so we can see a race.
the lack of coverage after the wreck bugs me. Who was involved, what happened? All they said was that JJ was safe and sound...
ReplyDeleteWould have liked to see MM crossing the finish line after he rolled.
Kind of interesting seeing @prnbrett's Twitter comments saying that the replay of Newman's wreck was the first time the TV audience saw the incident. The Planeteers (whom we appreciate more than they will ever know) are so perceptive. If ever there were a book called "How NOT To Produce Auto Racing Coverage", this broadcast would likely get a chapter of its own. The revelation that Jamie McMurray won seemed to fall from the sky upon the production team like something warm and gooey from the south end of a northbound goose. Usually spotters, PA's and (perish the thought) pit producers watching the scoring monitor would have jumped on that development like the aforementioned goose.
ReplyDeleteI'd vote for the Planeteers as the fan council if the TV partners were secure enough to acccept criticism from a panel of viewers--rather than the incestuous love fest fawning from other media outlets (JD--you are the rare and welcomed exception).
Oh by the way, Planeteers--you are hitting a nerve with the traditional NASCAR media--and you need to keep the pressure on.
I'm positive that NASCAR threw off BSPN today with their brand new racing rule. However, all BSPN had to do was get their notes from Pocono. Until the end. JP was almost salivating when talking about the big one before it happened.
ReplyDeleteI'm positive that the wrecks will make all the non racing TV shows.
I'm positive that we haven't heard the last from the drivers about racing at Dega.
I'm positive that NASCAR will not penalize anyone who may be responsible for causing the chaos. Hard to prove.
NASCAR put it's foot down on bump drafting and we as fans were the ones to pay.
ReplyDeleteESPN didn't have much of a chance to cover a 'race'.
The single file parade was a challenge for them. I was happy that we got some long shots and got to see where everyone was at. Mostly the racing was shown well. A few gaffes like the guys in the booth telling about the first wreck while we were treated to bumper cam shots for another 10-15 seconds before we could see it.
When the single file started the guys in the booth lost all touch with trying to bring us the action. Long silence...disjointed comments.
When the racing started I think that Jerry Punch was asleep at the switch. Dale, uh, Jarret and Andy aren't play by play guys and shouldn't have to try and carry a telecast.
Don't tell Pete Pistone or Jim Utter this, but it was a fairly good broadcast by
ESPN standards.
I still want to know who the top 10 finish was.
All I have to say is, ESPN missed the Newman wreck because why? Oh yeah. There were too busy usingg an INCAR CAMERA!
ReplyDeleteHorrible coverage like always.
ReplyDeleteLoved Ryan Newman's post-wreck interview. I bet there will be all kinds of spin control from NA$CAR on this.
ABC/ESPN is doing an ok job for what they are given to work with. Nobody could have made this race interesting. Best thing Nascar could do would be to knock down Talladega and Daytona (maybe some others too) and build some short tracks.
ReplyDeleteThe broadcast was the usual lack of details - recap of starting order, who is running where, accident details, and so on. The usual ABC/ESPN kind of broadcast - long on commercials and promo's for their shows, short on racing.
Wow. Obviously there's a little Jimmie animosity here. ESPN can't be faulted for keeping tabs on the point leader, especially given how hyped this race was as the one that could totally shake up the points standings.
ReplyDeleteAs for the coverage itself, I think Rusty's comment pretty much summed it up when he told us that things would really start to get exciting with 30 to go... of course the only problem was that this was long before even half way. He may as well have told us to leave and come back, and actually it was probably about the smartest thing anyone said in the booth all day long.
The race was horrible. That too, was not ESPN's fault, they just didn't do much to help things.
All-in-all, a day that could have been better spent watching football... or doing laundry....
Sorry ABC missed the knock down drag out btw Kurt Busch and Brad K. Oh wait, what? it didn't happen? are you sure? because ABC left us all hanging at the end. I'm scrambling to find results as I could've sworn the race was ending as a GWC, and the field was supposed to be frozen when the yellow came out.
ReplyDeleteDo I even care anymore?
Congrats Jamie Mac.
I totally agree with all the above, but I must praise Dr. Punch on one point:
ReplyDeleteWhen Ryan Newmans car came to rest upside down, I thought Dr. Punch was very, very effective in describing what the safety workers were doing, why they were doing it, and the general protocol in such a situation.
It shows me that Dr. Punch, when in his element, can be a very effective asset to ESPN. PXP just isn't his thing, and those in charge should but him in a position to suceed insted of watching him die a slow, painful death week after week.
Props as well to Jamie Little. Her interview of Ryan Newman, and his answers, were spot on and powerful.
Most of the camerawork didn't seem too bad, except for the serious lag time when something happened to switch to the relevant camera. But as someone who hadn't been bothered too much by the Jimmie mentions (he is, after all, the points leader) today they seemed determined to talk about him even when he wasn't a factor. Way too much focus. I wasn't even sure where guys like Stewart & Martin were running, but we all knew Jimmie was in the back. I don't like this kind of racing regardless of what rules they have, so I won't comment on that part. But it took quite a while to figure out the ending.
ReplyDeleteI used to enjoy the long tracks as they make good tv for wide shot views, and headlights coming at us.
ReplyDeleteI think they need to regrade Dega and make it more like Daytona to give drivers more control...or SOMETHING.
Also to slow the cars down, I am not a fan of RP. There are other ways and I would be a fan of that though I guess the different type engine might be more expensive...but...
Also agree with others how they went off the air so early stank.
I SO want to know what TONY STEWART had to say..anybody heard?
I did not know MW finished 6th.
I am glad I was busy on the computer and basically using the TV as radio but towards the end, there did seem to be some NICE Wide shots..but as soon as we'd FEEL the perspective, BOOM. and of course the bumper cam when Newman wrecked.
Even more INEXCUSABLE was the booth saw trouble in the first wreck and we went from one camera shot to a BUMPER SHOT, THEN the wreck.
SHEESH. The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.
PITIFUL.
MRN guys excellent!though I only heard them part of the race...I was not glued to the tv by ANY stretch of the imagination but have enough faith in the fellow planeteers to know it was business as usual.
I also have to add I am upset with NASCAR for once again "Re-writing the rules" and at the last minute!
It served no purpose but to make more boring race go to wrecks only race.
And I can't wait to hear the opinions by other drivers on Brad K.
He won Dega in spring...he should know to take it easy at the place.
But again, something needs to be done to change this race...others have mentioned regrading but I honestly think NASCAR LOVES the wrecks.
Lawd knows they promote i all over SPEED commercials and on ESPN. And on radio promos. :-(
I thought that ESPN did a good job letting the Drivers apologize to the fans for the lousy race. In particular the Ryan Newman interview was good.
ReplyDeleteAs for the race itself, I ended up using PIP and watching the football game while the procession went around the track and flipped back when it looked like something was happening.
Just a reminder, NASCAR has long discouraged corner bump drafting...they just haven't enforced it in a while. It was back in '05 when it was a big topic at Daytona. So it's not a 'totally out of the blue' thing, right or wrong. I think Newman had a point about them not trusting the drivers anymore.
ReplyDeleteSophia, I think the regrade is the only way. Most of the crew chiefs have said whatever way they slow the engines, it would have pretty much the same effect.
How is ESPN/ABC supposed to give us great race coverage when the race itself is so horrible? While we all know that ABC/ESPN has their major faults, I still maintain that if there was truly a great product on the track, perhaps we'd see better race coverage. Like the old saying, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and you can't have a great race show with a crappy race. Nascar is just as much at fault for the product we're being shown week in and week out. If you think the ratings have been bad now, just wait for the last few races. JJ's lead is nearly unsurmountable and no one cares one tiny bit about watching these races--I even doubt JJ's fans will be interested. Well, at least Ryan has the cojones to tell Nascar exactly what he feels. Maybe now Kyle Petty, Larry Mc and Jimmy Spencer can rest assured that their comments last week were totally on target.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like on this day, the "Big One (TM)" was the race itself, not the telecast.
ReplyDeleteI think it was NASCAR's last minute rule change that completely demolished ESPN's coverage. The choice of camera's used seemed to be better except for the part where they missed RN wreck. 2 box used more often to good effect etc. The booth seemed to be doing the best that it could, and I think if the rule change hadn't thrown a monkey wrench into the works they might have had an alright day.
ReplyDeleteJamie got a good interviw out of Ryan somehow, but couldn't follow it up with MM. Why? Same interviwer, same POed driver so what's the veriable? Director?
I was very unhappy over the coverage of the last werck, they didn't tell us who all was in it, or where they were lining up and no one really seemed to understand when the race was over, even some of the drivers. That part's Nascar's fault.
This used to be my favoirte race, but now, it's just confusing, frusterating, boring and then scary. I pray that not just ESPN but Nascar make some off season changes. Ryan is an engineer, so maybe they should listen to what he has to say about the problems at Dega instead of messing with the plates and the catch fences and pretending they know it all.
I chalk this up to a race I'm just glad everyone walked away from and look towards next week for redemtion on all sides.
I was one of the unlucky ones to miss out on the entire prerace show. I like bestwick and think he would do great as the main talking head during the race. Get rid of jerry punch .... please.
ReplyDeleteHardly listened to the race on abc . Mostly listened to Tony's scanner and sat in the yahoo chat, would know about something happening before they would get to it on tv.. Loved the interview with Ryan , Mark's not so much.
Get some new pit reporters.. please..!
Tony's first DNF of the season ( I think) and not a word was spoken about it.
Texas is next week. it's my home track. I dont know if I'll be watching or not. if I had tickets I would probably sell them.
@ Darcie, ditto.
ReplyDeleteNASCAR's "new rules" for todays race, I think Ryan Newman said it best. NASCAR should listen to him and take note of every word he had to say.
ReplyDeleteAs for ESPN, I think their post race interviews are for the damn birds. This is the SECOND time in the last THREE WEEKS that Kasey Kahne has finished either second or third and they don't interview him, but instead they chase down the HMS drivers. Now before any of you start, I'm not some sixteen year old who watchs NASCAR just because I "think Kasey Kahne is hot." Let me clairfy something, I have been a NASCAR fan since birth. I remember the old days when it was DW, Senior, Rusty, Richard Petty and all the greats out there racing. I remember when Jeff Gordon came into the sport, I remember when Tony Stewart came into the sport, hell I remember when Jimmie came into the sport, and I am in my early twenties. I remember the day DW retired, and I grew up at the old Nashville Fair-Grounds track. My uncle made and sold DW's merchandice in the days of the 17 Tide car and when he had the 8 1/2 Racing For Kids Car. I'm a die hard fan of the sport but the favoritism by NASCAR for the J's (HMS Drivers, Jimmie, Jeff and Junior) is getting really old. Jimmie may be the points leader, I can see interivewing him after a race, but damn it, Kasey is in the chase too, jumped up two spots today, and they don't even give him an interview on TV. That is just f&#ked up! They need to be fair. Not to mention they didn't interview Joey Logano who finished third as a rookie at Talladega. What happened to fair coverage?! What happened to the days when they would always interview at least the top three finishers if not the top five?! I can also see interviewing some of the drivers in that last wreck, but did anyone else notice that they only interviewed Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon when there was at least eight cars caught up in that wreck?! Not all of us have internet fast enough to let us see the post race media center interviews, I'm currently using my neighbors internet (and no, I'm not pirating, they gave me permission to) and it is slower than dirt cause they are across the road from me and down in a hollow. ESPN really needs to improve their post-race coverage if nothing else. They don't have a problem with allowing other sports to run over into our NASCAR races, but god forbid a race runs over into whatever program is scheduled after it, so they cut the post-race coverage short. I don't agree with that. NASCAR is treated like the red headed step-child of the sports world when it is, or used to be, one of the highest rated and watched sports on TV by the Nielsen TV Ratings.
Cars flipping and a surprise winner and we get the same old boring monotone call by Punch... He says the same things the same way over and over and over every week. Plus the constantly updating about where the 48 is every lap is unnecessary. We've got the ticker. We've got the scoring on the internet. I pray that ESPN puts somebody else up in the booth with Andy and DJ next year.
ReplyDeleteWhere were the interviews with Tony after the race? Where was the interviews with Harvick, Truex, or Kurt Busch. Where was the interview with Waltrip after he finished in the top 10 for what could be the final time in his career?
ESPN just makes it hard to watch a race anymore. It was the Jimmie Johnson show from start to finish, and I for one (someone who has watched NASCAR for going on 2 decades) am tired of it.
Oh and when Menard and Nemechek wrecked on lap 4, we had to watch the front bumper of Carl Edwards for nearly 8 seconds before they ever cut to a shot of the wreck. Terrible. Just terrible.
Driver tweets quite interesting after this race.
ReplyDeleteSophia, during one of the commercial breaks of the red flag, ESPN had a camera following Tony and his PR guy into the motorhome lot and the pr guy turned around and stopped the camera and turned him away.
I don't know what was scheduled after the race elsewhere but, here there was an infomercial.
ReplyDeleteTo expand on Whitney's comment, why couldn't they (ABC) interview more drivers? Since when does an infomercial bump a live event? Isn't that why they're scheduled? In case the live event runs over? It's not like it was primetime in the east.
I watched Hotpass from the drop of the green flag until the checkers with MRN audio. Went to ABC for post-race coverage. Monitored TDP and Twitter and Fox Racetrax on laptop.
ReplyDeleteThe GOOD--
MRN pxp is superb. They at least act like they are excited to be at the race.
Hotpass has a PIP with ABC feed and I saw more blimp overheads today. Nice. Noticed more long shots looking at headlights coming down the front stretch or back stretch.
Prerace feature on drivers wives was nice. It probably had been on NN but I don't watch it anymore.
Watched 39 wreck and thought JP did a very nice job of describing what was going on.
The BAD--
ABC was the very last source to give a status report on Ryan. I am sure they wanted to play it safe.
ABC/ESPN left the air way too soon. There was a lot of recapping that could have been done. They need to shift time allotment from prerace to postrace.
The production truck guys are just way too slow on going to the right camera. We always miss the action but they almost always have a replay. Whats with that
I am hoping that we get some much needed off season improvements to the ESPN broadcast team.
I had other things going on and did not get to pay attention to a lot of the race, but 2 very good things I did see were Ryan Newman's post-wreck comments and, even better, the calm way Doc ( & I guess the tecie's)handled the broadcast while Ryan's car was upside down. No speculating, no close-ups - a potential catastrophe handled well.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to bother repeating what everyone else has most eloquently said.
ReplyDeleteSuffice it to say, I knew I was in for a loooong day when the camera couldn't find Turn 2 when the booth was screaming about the wreck.
*sigh*
I must add that I was most grateful for Jerry Punch's calm, expert demeanor and commentary while we were waiting for Ryan to be removed from the car.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Dr. Punch.
I did like the way Doc handled the RN episode. Showed what he is good at. There were some nice overheads, but still too many bumper cams. And to make it the JJ show was just riduculous. And Robin Pemberton is pleased w/how much sidexside there was! OMG, are TPTB even watching the races??
ReplyDeleteDid no one else have a delayed re-start at the end of the race? I was on Trackpass's "Pit Command", with ABC on television (WJLA). As I watched on my computer (ABC had gone to break), I saw the green flag fly and cars go a whole lap (INCLUDING the wreck with Mark Martin and others) BEFORE ABC re-joined from commercials.
ReplyDeleteI literally saw the car numbers involved in the wreck (1, 5, et al) on the computer screen -- yet there was nothing but ads on the TV screen. When ABC finally returned from break, it was as if nothing had happened and they started the green/white/checkered -- yet I ALREADY KNEW that a wreck was going to occur next lap because I had seen it on my laptop. Very odd, and that pretty much capped off literally the worst race I have ever seen, on too many fronts.
Well, ESPN might not have had time for post race, but NBC nightly news found time to talk about Newman's werck
ReplyDeleteHere's another perspective:
ReplyDeleteI recorded the truck race on SPEED yesterday and SO FAR have successfully avoided knowing who won. But I was playing at a club last night where it was on 2 screens within my view from the stage. I was far enough away that I still don't know who won (will watch it later tonite).
All I can say is that SPEED's video coverage from across the room was enough to get me all revved up for today's race. Great camera angles, wide shots, dramatic pans and viewpoints.
What I saw today was pale by comparison. The trucks are the best racing in NASCAR and have the best coverage.
Anon, 6:52
ReplyDeleteLove that time shifting baby
in a 20 minute span, espn cant give us a finishing order?
ReplyDeletewell,,,i suppose it happens all the time, you know,like all those times they sign off from stick and ball telecasts without giving the score.....oh, wait, that only applies to nascar!!
and note to Jamie (my brain is so) Little.
Can you please, please, PLEASE think of some other question to ask other than " what are (were) your emotions when...(fill in the blank) happened?"
For crissake, go back to tv school and study journalism 101!! or better yet, just shut up.
It is so shallow, uninformative and sad.
When everyone in and out of the ESPN truck had to step up and give us some information instead of platitudes, only Dale Jarrett and petry delivered.
I am so ticked at ESPN and NASCAR now I can;t see straight
Bill
Dot,
ReplyDeleteI worked for a TV station several years ago that was an affiliate with several pro clubs, and the rule we had when infomercials were scheduled after a game was the whole infomercial ran in its entirety.
The regular program scheduled in the next time slot was always joined in progress, and the missed commercials were run inside other programs. Not a difficult approach at all.
to those wondering why they went to infomercial...on the East coast, it went to local news. So that's probably a big part of it. If you had a station who didn't plan to show the news or you live in a different time zone, that's why they resorted to infomercials.
ReplyDeleteI remember years ago grumbling about the first Daytona night race where they left for the news 10 minutes after the race end...about the same as this one. And it was on TNN. So that's nothing new. I'm not gonna bring the hammer down on them for that part.
@ Tom, thanks for the info on the infomercial. Not knowing how things work in TV land, it's nice to know that a Planeteer can explain it.
ReplyDeleteI thought an infomercial was just throw away programming to fill in the time.
Haus
ReplyDeleteYea I heard about the Stewart situation after the fact (camera person told to leave him alone)on Twitter.
Well I hate that I was so pre occupied today but it worked out well...I did not have the emotional investment in the tv (which I did NOT plan on anyway but was so busy, did not even turn on MRN until late in the race) Nor did I read live comments here.
I also missed Rday except bits about the change in rules and was on the call at that time RD showed HELTON and Hoots, with a business call so...kind of spent the day clueless...but ignorance is bliss.
I can't remember a time when so many drivers are upset.. Yes many hate Dega..but this is getting out of hand (drivers disenchantment)
They deserve to have NASCAR Powers that be do more than give lip service.
Ryan Newman said on SR his roll bar got warn down and his helmet was close to the ground. Are you kiddding me? Can you imagine how FRIGHTENING that had to be for him? I almost cry for him just thinking what might have happened. . .
I know Ed Hinton thinks we need more danger in racing ( I DISAGREE!) I say drivers need to BE ABLE TO HANDLE THEIR CARS better! HELLO.
ESPECIALLY AT DEGA!COT are still huge challenges...at this higher center of gravity car at a track like Talladega....Drivers no longer want to race there per Bob Dilner.SReport.
Also was Brad K DNQ'd for causing a crash on the last lap? Didn't I read that was Heltons' new rule, too?
BK took out Chase contenders.
*EDIT, watching SReport and E Sadler is saying it's the BANKING that needs fixing*
So I say take out the banking...But Dilner says the FANS LOVE DEGA!! Pack the place, LOVE the wrecks. Excuse me, so NASCAR should cater to the Jerry Springer mentality fans? I do not think so.
Time to move forward NASCAR..make some changes and stop making up superficial rules that ONLY worsen the driver's situation & make them more vulnerable.
Typical ESPN coverage - I had trackpass on so I could follow what was actually going on. What an awful race. The points leader is hiding in the back most of the race. Yeah it's good strategy for the points but it's pretty chicken too.
ReplyDeleteThe mess there at the end was ridiculous and the fact that ESPN left the air before giving us the unofficial finishing order is just plain stupid.
I'll admit that i was watching the Eagles/Giants game for the first part of the race -- after all they don't really race at Dega until 30 to go, but every time I flipped back to the race, guess what I saw? Commercials! Obviously ESPN knows there won't be any racing until 30 to go either.
yup East Coast news can bite the end of a race. October 2K3 at Charlotte we were screaming because they (NBC) left with NO winner interview for East Coast news so that they could get it in before a Justin Timberlake's SNL episode.
ReplyDeleteIIRC Smoke did his burnouts we heard from Coach they went to commercial and that was it!
If I had a working TV I'd check the tape but I can't even remember if they properly signed off. I don't think they did because we were sending posts wondering if they told us to go to TNT or another channel.
Crazy is reairing the ABC broadcast and it is hard to watch. I had the Hotpass version earlier. What a shame this is but do look forward to getting to Ryan's wreck and hearing how Dr. Jerry handled that.
I hope they relook at this and re-think some of these rules. Just glad everyone was able to walk away today :(
@Dot = infomercial = 30 minutes commercial revenue
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who used to work for an affiliate when that had live sports programming, including football. I think that the rule was, if the sporting event (including post-event coverage) went less than 15 minutes into the assigned news slot, they would run a shortened news; over 15 minutes, they would go a half hour and cut commercials overnight to get back on schedule.
In DC, we had the World News, then went to local news, so it was up against news programming. But, if football can go over and get full post-game coverage as CBS and FOX do, why can't NASCAR? And that's when they infringe on prime time.
GinaV24--race results are always unofficial until they go through post race inspection. They gave the finishing order as they believe it at the time. They did plenty of other crappy stuff, but that was beyond their control.
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ReplyDeleteI bailed at 1:30 central time and went to meet somebody at Starbucks. By that time single file racing had started. I knew it was going to be like that until near the end unless somebody blew a tire.
ReplyDeleteGot back just in time to see the 39 on the wrecker. Thanks to the dvr I "rewinded" to before the wreck. And then I put it on pause and went out to my backyard to photograph the last of the Blue Angels performance. Isn't it crazy when you can see something more exciting in your backyard than the race on tv?
Got back inside still in time to catch the wreck, fast forward through a bunch of commercials and yakety yak and still catch up and finish in real time.
If I had to do it over again I would still ditch the race to go to Starbucks, but come back sooner to catch more of the Blue Angels, even though I saw them yesterday.
I got the impression that Jerry Punch was really making an effort. Honestly, I felt like he was really trying to add excitement... but a better grade in effort does not make up for a failing grade in execution. He was simply horrible this day.
ReplyDeleteA lot of fuss was made this week about Larry Mac, Kyle Petty, and Jimmy Spencer driving fans away from the sport with their interview.... but which is worse: what they said or Jerry Punch reminding us that NASCAR banned bump-drafting in the corners. What was certainly not a popular decision with fans was hammered into us over and over and over again because Jerry Punch has nothing to say. So, he kept reminding us how NASCAR neutered the race.
I tell you, if I was a paying fan, I'd be mad at NASCAR for their last-minute switch that ruined the racing action. But as a non-paying fan who watched at home, I'm even madder that Jerry Punch is ruining my Sunday racing experience.
HE HAS TO GO!
To call Jimmie "chicken" for running at the back to avoid calamity is not only ignorant, it's not what this blog is about tonight. Take your HMS hatred somewhere else.
ReplyDeleteI can't say any more than what has been said about the coverage.
Sad. It was all just sad.
My comments on the broadcast:
ReplyDeleteHow many times did ESPN cut away from green flag racing to show AJ Allmendinger pit? Seriously, I think it was three times, none of which made sense at the time.
Jerry Punch is stinking up the joint so bad that it is very easy to miss how off Dale Jarrett has been. He didn't offer much of anything to this race.
I am sick of Brad Daughtery. I actually enjoy his enthusiasm, but he has to learn that a) stop yelling into the microphone and b) c'mon dude, stop going crazy every time you get anything close to a prediction right. I am so sick of him crowing on "I told you so, I told you so!" When he is at the table, I feel like they are covering three perspectives: Driver (wallace), crew chief (evernham), and loudmouth fan (brad).
Tim Brewer: Useless waste of a plane ticket and hotel room if you ask me. Nicest guy with so much knowledge and yet such a bumbling waste of on-air time when they cut to him.
Jaime Little: How do you feel?
Juan Pablo Montoya: Best pre-race interview
Ryan Newman: Best post-race interview. Sorry, but Kyle Petty can't say NASCAR doesn't have personalities.
I have a question for the 48 Jimmie Johnson haters: Who would be leading the points in the Winston Cup points format (no Chase?) Yep, that's right. Jimmie Johnson. Tony Stewart took a 247 point lead into the Chase when the scores were reset, and now Johnson has a 297 point lead over him.
ReplyDeleteTake that, Chase haters. Jimmie would be the man no matter what.
PS: Shame on Nascar for ruining the race with their rule change and then double shame on ESPN for mentioning it every 10 laps or less.
Anon 7:52 said "But, if football can go over and get full post-game coverage as CBS and FOX do, why can't NASCAR?"
ReplyDeleteI guess NASCAR just doesn't garner the respect that other sports do.
NASCAR doesn't garner the ratings football does....pretty simple.
ReplyDelete@ anom 8:23
ReplyDeleteDude, your math isn't very good. According to jayski, if there was no chase Jimmie would only be leading by 9 points.
A 9 point lead would not make Jimmie da man. The Chase format and Chad Knaus is what makes Jimmie da man and the rest of us bored.
And just because somebody is sick of the non stop talking and fawning of the broadcasters of Jimmie and the ignoring of most of the other drivers does not make that person a Jimmie hater. There is a difference.
Post race interviews were lame.
ReplyDeleteMark Martin is clearly frustrated, but Little has zero ability to craft a follow-up question or ask anything other than how the driver is feeling, so we get nothing, NOTHING, from Martin.
Jeff Gordon is also upset, dropping the intense sarcasm. Does the reporter pick up on it? Nah.
And Juan Pablo Montoya's interview.... oh, wait, they didn't interview Montoya. Or the 2nd place car. Or third place car.
Man, this gets just stupid, anyone who doesn't like something someone does is now a hatter???? No, JJ hanging out at the back of the field not being a racers racer is a plain fact, is it a smart points racing move, YES, is it a racers racer mentality, NO, but to believe so doesn't make me a JJ hater, I would have the same opinion no matter who did it.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I agree with another post above, Tim Brewer is the most wasted talent on the ESPN staff. He could offer so much, is let do so little.
Overall, ESPN did do better job than normal, still a few rockie gaffs that are totally inacceptable at this level. What can they do, look who is guiding them, the big brains at NASCAR. Great rule today guys!! (IDIOTS)
Honestly, I'm not sure anyone could have done much covering this race. It was a tough race.
ReplyDeleteDr. Punch was stellar describing what was going on when they were cutting Ryan out of the 39. For the first time, I felt he was in his element, and I appreciated what he was teaching me.
Can't believe they shut it down at 5 on the button. Just amazing. With no report of who finished in what position. Absolutely nuts.
Am I the only person that receives about 3/4 of the announcers audio?It happens every ESPN race.Also,when interviewing MM at the end of the race,it was cut off at in mid interview at the top of the hour for a late BILLY MAYES infomercial.
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ReplyDeleteI actually watched this race on Hot Pass, which with the radio coverage that it provides made the race sound more exciting.
ReplyDeleteOf course that is radio's job, to be the eyes of those who can't see a tv. Which is I think tv's problem.
and Jerry Punch showed why he should be on Pit Road today, with all the information he was providing on why the Emergency team was doing what they do.
Just a rundown. They missed the first caution. Andy was yelling two cars in the wall turn .. and nothing.
ReplyDeleteAs said before production in the mirror.
Had a random thought last race about Doc. He was a pit reporter for years. What do pit reporters do? Name, car number, and information. He is just keeping on with that.
If you don't cling to the broadcast and just do the 'casual fan' type viewing it's not as annoying. But missing cautions and some of the action at this point of experience is uncalled for
The one thing I know you can count on is that no matter what NASCAR does or why - like trying to avoid accidents - what passes for the NASCAR print media will find fault with it, regardless. In all likelihood tomorrow many members of the NASCAR print media will write about the terrible dangers of Talladega - right below eye-catching pictures of crashes.
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ReplyDeleteForgot
ReplyDeleteThe Doc giving incite to what was going on etc was great.
But too bad we are all sheep and can't think for ourselves. Anon's are the best.
I'm certainly not an expert - except in what I like and dislike and, except apparently for EESPN and my local newspaper, most companies with which I do business care whether I am satisfied with the service I am receiving.
ReplyDeleteso, i've been thinking about today's race for a coupla hours now and it's still a bit of a jumble b/c there was so much involved aside from the broadcast that effects how i view the broadcast in hindsight.
ReplyDeletebut as i read back over the race blog, it was the newman wreck that was both the best and worst of the broadcast for me (aside from the usual production issues that have already been outlined, week in and week out.)
positives:
* dr. punch's excellent work talking about what the emergency crew was doing and not doing and why. this was the dr at his best and the very same voice that drives me to distraction when he does PxP was the EXACT tone that was needed.
* not showing krissie newman hurrying to the infield care center before we all knew her husband was ok and was waiting to be extricated. obviously, the lesson from the matt kenseth wreck and showing katie, scared and crying on her way to infield care before she -- and we -- knew matt was ok, was learned. good decision to not show that tape until we knew ryan was ok.
* letting newman talk when he came out of infield care. honest emotion, blunt opinion allowed to be expressed without interruption.
the negative:
* the entire thing was missed and only shown on replay and, as i recall, newman was pretty much in the middle of the pack. not sure how it got missed
the horrible:
and this may be THE most unfair statement i will ever make but as i re-read the race blog before posting, the feelings i had at this moment came back very strongly and i realized this is why i feel so horrible about the broadcast today:
after reminding us for the back half of the race that we hadn't seen "the big one" yet, it seemed so false and hypocritical to hear the booth say stuff like "well, we'd hoped it wouldn't happen . . ." when newman wrecked.
the entire build-up to this race was showing the 99's wreck last time and talking about how the track has seen some horrific wrecks over time. and then the entire team kept saying things like "well, there's only been x cautions so far and no 'big one' yet!" thru out the race. as if the sole reason we watch racing at 'dega is for the wreck that we all FEAR will happen.
so, i recognize that my anger over the disconnect between "wow! we haven't seen the big one yet and "well, we hoped it wouldn't happen" is unfair at some level. but i also know that is THE moment that has left with me the worst feeling about the broadcast. they set it up as being something that just HAD to happen at 'dega or the race would be a disappointment at some level and then, when it did happen? they presented it as being THE very event they were hoping to avoid.
it can't be both. and forcing both is what's left the worst feeling in my gut tonight, so much so that i really don't care about all the rest right now.
don't kow if i've been able to explain myself very well tonight -- sorry to all. but it just seemed so hypocritical at the time and still feels that way hours later.
Worst race and coverage I can remember in a long time. Most coverage ever of a 33rd place car. Unprompted by me, my spouse asked where can we complain about this mess. She asked me why Alan Bestwick wasn't doing PxP. I told her I wish I knew why.
ReplyDeleteOn the plus side, I did like the blimp shots.
@ red
ReplyDeleteI understand what you are saying about the hypocrasy (I can't spell, but it was crassy) over the "big one" and I agree.
I would like to follow up on the anonymous report that the race was actually on a "delayed" basis on TV while the computer was a lap ahead for the finish. Is this accurate? Did ABC "tape" the final restart and delay it while they got in one more commercial?
ReplyDelete@ red, good post.
ReplyDelete@ Anon 10:27, I think I read that ABC is 8 seconds behind. Not enough time for a comml but it might explain the time difference.
ReplyDelete@red
ReplyDeleteI understand exactly what you're trying to say.
TV has been promoting this race since April -- how? By showing wrecks over, and over, ad infinitum.
Then when "the big one" happens, they're horrified!
Balderdash. Bah, humbug.
Anon 10:27PM,
ReplyDeleteThis happened once before on a key Jimmie Johnson pit stop in an earlier Chase race.
Once the TV crew rolled it as live, the reporters on site immediately Tweeted that the pit stop had already taken place and was being played back without telling the TV viewers.
In this case, there was a lot of chaos going on and I have no way to judge.
However, I doubt it as many TV viewers were also listening to the radio and would have caught a TV time shift this big quickly.
Until we get something concrete, I have to give that a no.
JD
red
ReplyDeleteI totally get your point. As others have noted and I have noticed on SPEED & other channels promoting this race; It's all about the WRECKS.
Nobody can stop talking about it during the broadcast. I didn't not get to see the early parts of the race but had the tv on in the room and kept hearing the words "the big one."
Well, if the track is so hated WHY NOT CHANGE IT? They changed Bristol which now many hate, but I like the improvements and less wrecking.
Why not change Dega? I heard on SR or VL (sorry can't remember) that "Fans Love Dega. They pack the stands, the infield. They love the wrecks."
.
.
.
This is the justification for the scary wrecks?
Technology has gotten in the way, blah, blah, blah.
Well as I sent to somebody on Twitter and hour ago. NASCAR stop catering to the Jerry Springer crowd? Bulldoze Dega and take down some of the banking. Make it more of a handling track where drivers have a chance to control the cars and not be so damned vulnerable.
I heard Elliott Sadler say it on a SPEED show, too.
Just yank this band aid off quickly once and for all and redo the track.
Course some are still outraged over Bristol so what do I know.
But red, you are correct over the hypocrisy. I still remember the giddyness after the Edwards crash last spring. All the guys on ESPN had it even the next day.
Well, I hope they caught the interview today with the young lady who's jaw was shattered from the race.
Just a reminder, we are looking for your comments on the TV coverage of the Cup race from Dega by the NASCAR on ESPN team.
ReplyDeleteIf ISC can't afford to light Dega, they will never pay to reconfigure the track.
ReplyDeleteI think NASCAR (ISC) likes to see the wrecks. If that's what it takes for the Jerry Springeresque fans to fill the stands, good legitimate racing be damned.
Too add excitement to the TX race coming up, how many times will we see the McDowell crash in the promos this week?
Well I was lucky that I had to leave 45 minutes after the race started and got to listen to it on MRN. I thought they were doing pxp of a totally different race. Even the single file train sounded exciting!
ReplyDeleteFrom what I saw the first 45 minutes was the usual crap we have all grown to hate from this joke of a network when it comes to Nascar.
The only consistant things we can count on is the JJ show, bad camera work and lousy questions from pit reporters about feelings!
So happy Ryan Newman was unscathed. Too bad King Brian won't sit down and listen to him with his engineering degree and all. Hell, he won't listen to the fans, why should he listen to the drivers. I am sure his father is spinning in his grave right about now!
TDP, thanks to you for allowing us to vent when its bad and praise when its good.....Truck race, Speed ring a bell?!
Hey kids be sure to tune in to the JJ show next week! Ugh!!!!!!!!!
After the RN wreck I heard a Jerry Punch from years ago and I liked it. He would do a great job in the infield studio,please ESPN swap AB with JP. It might be too late for this year,but please do it next year.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome Deb, thanks for taking the time to comment.
ReplyDeleteI dont have much of a comment, as i said on Twitter, i watched the race via Hotpass which uses MRN audio
ReplyDeleteWith that said when the racing got heated the MRN guys were beside themselves with excitement. The name of the turn reporters escapes me but almost every lap you wouldve thought he was down in the cars calling the race. Usually while MRN was broadcasting what sounded like an INSANE race for the lead ESPN was showing Jimmie Johnson putzing around single file in 35th
There was a few times when bumper cam/roof cam was uncalled for, especially considering all the roof cams were getting sandblasted, yes a bumper cam gives you a great view of the drafting but thats crap you use when its boring single file
Anyway i'd give MRN a 8.8 out of 10 only because i HATE that they talked to: Someone from Daytona, Someone from Talladega and someone from Pepsi all while there was greenflag and side by side racing
ESPN could consider themselves lucky if i give them a 4/10
I think I'm going to a dog show next weekend instead of watching the race.
ReplyDeleteWicked
ReplyDeleteI usually give ESPN a MINUS 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 for camera work and info.
Today for about 20 laps towards the end, I thought the camera wide shots were great..then they switched to bumper cam and we miss Ryan's wreck? (We'd done missed the first wreck when the booth DID say trouble with two cars, at which time the BSPN monkey SWITCHED to a BUMPER CAM and once they gave him a banana, director went to the wreck...)
ESPN will NEVER "get it" like TNT does.
word veri rings :)
As in circles...as in parade of cars
(NASCAR is spying on us with the word veri thingie!)
I can't say NASCAR ruined this race because they didn't. JD and others stated in the race thread that the racing and single file nature is something Talladega has been over the years where it gets hectic at the end, though the rapid and harsh rule change (which drivers had an idea was coming Friday mind you) did affect the competition to an extent. Guys who probably would have made moves a bit earlier that the dead end had to get themselves in the top 5 then wait till the last possible second which never came due to fuel mileage and wrecks.
ReplyDeleteABC, oy vey that was a big one in itself. 2 of the 3 wrecks were missed completely, and the only reason they caught the one in the trioval was because they were in a wideshot (shocker!). That screams PROBLEM!
The production truck, the guys that bring us the images, organize the flow of the broadcast, you know, those people Jim Utter and others, well they quite honestly FAILED epically at their jobs today. They sure can drag slow mo replays out all day long but I've never seen a network have bigger problems trying to catch action in progress than ESPN has in the last 3 years.
Jimmie's stop was a replay? Wow. Nice job lying to the viewers ESPN!! JP had a tough day but he was well used in the Newman wreck, unfortunately by that point I had my Jerry Punch fill for the day so most of what he said went right through one ear and out the other. Swapping Bestwick and JP is SO simple and would be SO effective, yet I must be CRAZY for thinking that it makes sense. JP doesn't seem to command from his trailer the quality that Marty Reid and AB demand and the pictures we see reflect that. It would be awfully interesting to see a NW race on this same weekend with Reid having the call just to see what the images would look like.
I respect JP a ton and have said on numerous occasions that ESPN fully has the people capable of putting A+ shows together, just that in this combination and incarnation they suck. I stand by that. Shannon had a horrid day with interviews. Thank our lucky stars the drivers kinda went off on their own tangents which gave me what I wanted as a viewer. But man, the pit reporting was disgusting at best.
Not recapping the field before the final restart was a joke, there should have been NO reason they cut out after that red flag. Do whatever you have to do to stay with the race till the end from the time you came back and saw Ryan get out of the car till the checkered flag. There was so much chaos going on that they needed to be ontop of that. I credit them sticking with Ryan, but at the same time wasted over 5 minutes focusing on Ryan when after 2 minutes they knew he was okay but were just waiting to turn the car over. That would have been a good chance to quickly run down fuel situations, who can make it, who cant, who has damage, who doesn't, etc.
Instead we took the green flag completely lost. All we knew was that a bunch of guys had to pit. Credit Jamie but could that have been any quieter a win if he tried? Even when Mark Martin flipped, Jamie was the forgotten guy until he got to the trioval over a minute later.
Covering the Chase is important, but the individual race itself is what we tuned in for, COVER that first. Use the post-race to analyze your Chase.
Waltrip gets a top 10, not a word is said or interview given...
The guy dodged that last wreck and got one of his best finishes of the year! JEEZ! NASCAR says run up front in the Chase and you'll get talked about even if you aren't a Chase guy, WELL GUESS NOT!
Ive never been 100% sold on the Chase, but maybe Jimmie will clinch early and pee all in NASCAR's Chase Cheerio's. I can hope at least...
Red, you nailed the positives today and I really agree with everything you said. I just had to voice my bit.
I have a question for JD:
ReplyDeleteYou thought change was coming. Not just hoped, but you posted that you really thought change was coming. Did you get any of it? Even remotely?
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ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Brad D.'s comments during the race - get rid of all these stupid plate-exclusive "safety rules" that stink up the show (out of bounds line, no bump drafting in the corners, etc.) and let the drivers race! What a joke it is that both of these practices are completely legal at places like Charlotte where they would actually cause a major wreck 100 times out of 100 but are illegal at Talladega where it's by far the lowest risk track to do them on.
ReplyDeleteSadly the pit studio remains the only positive of the ESPN broadcasts. It doesn't get any more frustrating then watching green flag pit stops or Jimmie Johnson running 35th on the full screen while the leader bubble on top of the scoring crawl keeps bouncing back and forth "showing us" lead changes that are going on outside of the director's line of sight.
Annon @ 1:19
ReplyDeleteIf you were pointing to JD with either name calling or other demeaning nature then I'm sure it went down for that reason alone.
People who enjoy ESPN's product are more than welcome to post because I would love to see what they have to say and why they enjoy it.
Okay. Now that I'm back from Talladega(at 9pm) and having watched the DVR of the broadcast, I have some observations.
ReplyDeleteAfter the earlier races prior to Charlotte, I vowed to see the next three races in person while DVRing those races so as to compare what I saw as an attendee at the races versus a TV viewer. I attended the races at Charlotte, Martinsville and, yesterday, at Talladega.
I've come to the conclusion that the three races I've just seen in person and the three races I watched on TV were not the same races. Granted, being there is always more enriching than watching it from a distance, but the TV coverage in each of those races was so different from the actual in-person race as to seem that they could not have been Charlotte or Charlotte, etc.
I see from some of yesterday's comments that the DP is supposed to be anti-ESPN, but from the Speedway Club at LMS and suites at Martinsville and Dega, fans in attendance certainly were shouting at the flat screens when the booth was reporting things the rest of us were not seeing at those races.
Two other points: we were going to Birmingham for a dinner and hotel after the Dega truck race, but SPEED was encouraging fans to get into the Halloween spirit and attend the postrace show. After altering our reservations(a good thing as there were several Sprint drivers, CC's and owners having dinner at the later time), the SPEED crew had a blast and greatly included the fans attending(so much more than got into the telecast!), second: when Jr. got the lead, Junior Nation erupted and even within our suite, the noise equaled the sound of the cars racing past.
Lastly, I'm struck by an observation that isn't necessarily anti any network broadcasting Sprint Cup races but bears thinking about what's it's all about.
Last week, my wife and I watched the DVR'ed broadcast of the Prelude at Eldora on SPEED. We enjoy going to the Prelude and also enjoy watching the rebroadcast a couple of months later. As in previous years, the broadcast was great as it enlarged on what we saw actually being at the race and filled in what we didn't see while there. My question is why can't I see the same thing watching the last three ESPN broadcasts? I've attended other races which were covered by the other NASCAR TV partners and, at least, I've gotten more from them than I have from ESPN.
Certainly during the Chase, I would hope I would get the best from the universe of television but it simply ain't there. I'm priveledged to be able to attend races rather than view them on TV, and I'm saddened for the fans who cannot.
My station (KXLY-TV in Spokane) also did not air NASCAR Countdown. Instead, it aired the Emperor's New School and the Replacement in order to fulfill an E/I agreement.
ReplyDeleteThank you Tom! Hope you can elaborate more on the post-truck race stuff! Looked like a riot from what I saw on Trackside!!
ReplyDeleteQuestion:
ReplyDeleteWhy is it when we criticized Digger, everyone in the print media jumped on the bandwagon, yet we try to provide thoughtful insight about glaring issues from the WWL and get made fun of?
Just an observation...
JD I have loved NASCAR since the early 60's, but yesterday was the last straw for me, between NA$CAR telling racers how to race, and Jerry Punch, who only knows numbers and not names, I give up! I'll get the results from the paper in the morning!
ReplyDeleteSadly, perhaps the best possible scenario for all parties involved would be for JJ to clinch the title at Phoenix.
ReplyDeleteThat would gove ESPN one chance to see if they have any recollection at all about how to broadcast a RACE.
I believe everyone has a right to an opinion and a place to air/post their said opinions. Yesterday I didnt get to see a lot of the coverage because I was traveling. What I did see though was really a lot of the same ole same ole. Regardless of whether it was ESPN, Fox, or TNT. Too many commercials, not enough showing what we tuned into and that is the race. My question though is this and I have asked it numerous times, but I read all the complaints and know there is a lot of them, so what if anything is being done? Are they getting to the right people and if they are, are they responding to them via this blog or emailing the editor? I'm sure I am not the only one asking this very question, so what is the answer?
ReplyDeleteABC's coverage has to be the worst in NASCAR. There are still 42 other drivers on the track besides Jimmie Johnson! It was getting ridiculous how many times they would put him on camera, when he was doing nothing but riding around 30th all day. But it seemed every 5 seconds, we would find what Jimmie is up to, nothing! I feel sorry for those drivers who don't always run up front and didn't get their tv coverage, because the broadcast was so focused on Johnson.
ReplyDeleteThis goes down as the second worst race i have ever witnessed in 40 years of nascar fan..umm..ship..dom?..either way..it was horrid..and the ABC/ESPN crew did nothing to make it even palpable.At times during the race..they played radio bits ,one was tony saying the fans need no doze..not even a chuckle from the booth really..heck..wasnt until end of race that jerry punch even mentioned..oh..by the way..kenseth and ragan are running the new FR9 motor..that should have been a main talking point during the race..when a manufacturer introduces a new peice that "could" be a gamechanger for the make you talk bout it..nope..not today...with such a horrndously boring no race race..you'd think..somehow the talking heads in the booth would find something interesting to discuss instead of the same old yawnnning pap they spew.
ReplyDeleteDecided to watch this live, as my morbid curiosity gets the better of me at plate tracks. What a mistake. Tight in car shots continuing while the crew is shouting about trouble in turn 2. That was just the beginning. The only credit I give ESPN was that this was the worst race I have seen in a long time, and I wonder how good the coverage would be even if it was the best crew etc. SAD!
ReplyDeleteThis was essentially the last race of the season for me.
Tom
Inverness, FL
I thought the race coverage was as "good" as it has normally been but the poor quality was noticed more because the product they were showing was so poor. I don't think anyone in broadcasting could have made this race watchable. If they would throw the script away, get a director who knows how to choose which cameras to show and spike the booth's food and drink, I think other race broadcasts could be improved.
ReplyDeleteWhen I invest this much of my life. Watching this sorry of an excuse for a race. Then have to log on to a racing site, to get a finishing order. What can I say?
ReplyDeleteNASCAR prostituted their product. Now they're getting the coverage they deserve.
SPEED, & TNN, got them where were, but they dropped them like a hot rock.
They need one network W/O team owners in the booth. SPEED has shown how it should be done with F1.
What a disaster of a race. I couldn't sleep last night because of the race - because I slept in my chair all afternoon while the single file sillyness was going on!!
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else notice how many empty seats there were in the stands? There will be lots more at all the tracks next year. My Michigan renewal is sitting on my desk and I just let the deadline go past. If we decide to go there will be lots of cheap tickets available outside.
Even my wife was complaining about the tv coverage yesterday. I lost count of times we saw something happen on track that the commentators totally missed. It was a boring race that generated boring coverage.
I'm tired of the cookie cutter cars and the controlling organization. Lets have real cars again - I'd rather see Mustangs, Challengers, Cameros, etc on the track. Let the racers race and let the crew chiefs be inovative again. Encourage creative "adjustments" and "fine tuning" by the crews. As much as I enjoy racing, I can't wait for this boring season to be over and done for.
Hot Pass/DirectTV/MRN had excellent
ReplyDeletecoverage. I switched between the
4 drivers and saw much more of the
race that the ABC/ESPN was
showing on their screen. MRN
interviewed Tony Gibson on the
way to the garage several minutes
before Punch woke up. He said
Ryan was ok and just wanted to
get out so he could go to the
bathroom. That was also played
over the track system while JP
was going dramatic.
Some of the distant crowd shots suggested that the grandstands were close to half empty.
ReplyDeleteWondering why California gets criticized for low attendance, when this track and Atlanta had such poor attendance and seem to get a pass?
David, I totally agree with *everything* in your 12:18 post. That is how I always think of 'dega. And Tom in Dayton makes it sounds like the fans who attended are not going to be angry. The ones calling it the worst race ever must not have seen NHIS fall 2000, not to mention races 'back in the day' where a leader lapped the field.
ReplyDeleteAlso, about the 'wrecking' promotion. Much as I hate to say it, there has *always* been a certain element of fans who like sport for the violence of it. No different than the 'crunch' videos for the NFL, and yes, the 'world's worst wrecks' type ones. I don't know how big a segment it is, and it kind of irritates me to see it glorified, but if I were a TV executive, I think it would be hard to ignore.
Kevin, both 'dega and Atlanta (because they flipped the back & front stretch a few years ago, and thus have 'extra' room) have twice the seating capacity of California. So a half empty Talladega still holds 100,000, a half full California only 50,000--and I think they reported both races were probably below that. Also, Talladega has the largest camping area inside the track, and there are many people who watch from there.
ReplyDeleteGreat comments, please keep them coming.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the questions, but this post is for the fans. No opinions from me until Tuesday.
The amount of knowledge in the NASCAR fan base about covering the sport on TV is amazing.
Your comments are being read across the industry and the media. Make them count.
JD
10 laps into the race, I did go for a long walk. Guess I did not miss any racing.
ReplyDeleteBobby Dee
Bland commentary, too many commercials, strange camera work, and low rate pit reporting.
ReplyDeleteI finally got my wife to watch a Talladega race. She hates NASCAR, but I got here interested by playing the Dave Despain documentary on how they built the track. That got here mildly interested. Then came the countdown/pre-show. She actually started to get a little excited. Then, after about 20 laps, she looked at me and said: "This is like watching a really fast parade. Why are they all lined up single file?"
ReplyDeleteShe stopped watching and who knows when I'll have another chance to try and get her hooked on this sport. Thanks, ESPN!
Anon at 10:39. I don't think it was ESPN's fault that the cars were single file during parts of the race, I think that was Nascar's or the drivers maybe wanting to catch their breaths. It's the broadcast that gets to me.
ReplyDeleteABC was in a bad spot with little racing that was going on for most of the race. But when the racing picked up the last 30 laps, they goofed on the biggest part of the race. When Ryan Newman flipped, there were are seeing another in-car camera shot and miss the initial flip. At that point, all we see if a car with a "9" on it and not sure who it is until the car tags the wall and starts rolling again.
ReplyDeleteChange Talledaga - the stands that is. Move the fans back a safe distance, ditch the restrictor plates and let the drivers go all out. And if the single file crap continues, cut the length of the race so everyone will feel they have to race for a win.
ReplyDeleteExcept for Shannon and Jamie, F-1 racing is much better and more interesting than Cup racing at some tracks. Newman's wreck put Jerry Punch back where he belongs as a TV person. He was great in his proper venue. NASCAR really needs to take a look at the tracks and change their schedules and race dates if they want to keep the fans.
ReplyDeleteafter watching the truck race sat on the SPEED channel it left me wanting more. after ABC's coverage it left me confused and frustrated.....which is something thats seems to be the norm after watching ABC's coverage of a nascar race.
ReplyDeleteso now, its "your turn" I'M TIRED OF THE CRAP WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH FROM ESPN. i'll listen to the radio the next 3 races and try my best not to complain too much in febuary about digger on fox.
mike in louisiana
I DVR'd race and watched after GRB-MIN game. Took about 80 mins to watch sans commercials,"features", parade laps, and other irrelevancies mainly for benefit of JJ Jr celebrity worshippers. Camera work was fine --- camera direction not good. Obviously some of the directors in truck are not race fans. They have no feel for the race itself. Race coverage does not require 6 talking heads with nothing of substance to say 25% of time. Coverage at end of race was chaotic and a total fubar. They missed the main substance of the race such as G lap of GWC. We had no idea of finishing order or why drivers running up front were so far down in finishing order (wrecked? Out of Fuel?). Bad racing, bad coverage.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, since I caught the re-air late last night since for some God awful reason I was up until 4 am, ESPN did spend half of the final lap talking about Jamie so I can tone that rant down a bit. Still baffled how they can not give us a finishing order though, even a tenative one would have been nice because alot of positions changed after ESPN went long off the air. Still though, an IDEA of where everyone finished would have gone a long way to giving the fans something for sticking with them for 4 plus hours.
ReplyDeleteSee, it sounds like I'm complaining just to complain, but is there ever ANY excuse to go off the air without showing a final finishing order?!
That would be like the PGA going off the air showing you just who won the tourney, where Tiger finished, then saying "See you next week!" not showing a final result sheet. People would lose their minds! (Waits for someone to correct me since I watch exactly 0% of golf)
Maybe ESPN showing you the new BCS standings despite not talking about WHY they look like what they do?
If MRN can run through what they think the finishing order can be, ESPN can run a freaking graphic for 30 seconds! Ive said many times, once the checkered flag falls, the ticker does NOT count. I honestly never look at the ticker anymore since it just scrolls so slowly and I usually have pit command up. Though pit command screwed up at the end and showed JPM as the winner. Needless to say I was confused.
two random thoughts
ReplyDelete#1- Punch saying that "anything can happen and probably will" - That is one of the oldest and overused cliches ever said on sports broadcasts.
#2 - Newman's car doing a "somersault" I realize that this fits the dictionary definition but in reality does not apply. Believe to do a somersault you have to land on your feet which Newmans car did not. Once again the good Dr goes to his bag of cliches.
all we were missing was flashcubes going off.
Like a lot if not most us us here I have watches virtually every NASCAR Cup broadcast since Feb 2001 and it is quite clear that Bestwick is underutilized. He is one of the top 3-4 pxp NASCAR broadcasters (behind at least M Joy and B Hall) and has not done any pxp for FIVE YEARS!.
nuff said
I try to watch DTV Hotpass as much as possible to get MRN/PRN audio and have been watching less and less NW Races on ESPN.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I thought they were scrolling the unofficial results at the top of the screen (not the typical vertical rundown, but the scroll...maybe they started it and then stopped it? I didn't record the race, so I can't say for sure. and results are always unofficial. It's always listed that way. And it's happened before where results changed after NASCAR looked at the visual evidence. I can't blame the network for hanging around, especially when they know we can all go look it up for ourselves. Just saying...
ReplyDeleteOutside of DJ it seems like the crew has no idea what's going on in the race. While the others were going crazy commenting on how many drivers got trapped a lap down by the Kurt Busch caution DJ jumped in with the "yeah... but they'll all get the wave around so it doesn't matter". When the second place car Kenseth dove in the pits on the final restart only DJ noticed. I'd like to see Bestwick with Dale and Rusty in the booth next year personally.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I am conflicted. I love plate racing. We drive 3000 miles every Feb to see the race. It is exhilirating in person. The sounds, the speed, the strategy, the shuffling. However, the "big ones" are terrible. I do not like to see crashes, ever. So, what to do?
ReplyDeleteRegarding ESPN, in no particular order:
"Trouble in turn 2"...hello, camera please. (Thank you for trying DJ & AP.)
HotPass/Mrn...great, except no engine noise :-(
HotPass...ESPN picture...in car cam, full screen green flag pit stops, JJ. MRN...going crazy with lead changes, shuffling of the pack up front, mid pack.
Newman crash - MRN quick with Ryan ok (watched ESPN portion later, long delay). Explains TDP'ers concerns for Ryan when reading posts.
Newman crash - if using wide shot, showing headlights of the pack, ESPN would have caught that wreck live.
Last part of race, when ESPN was showing the pack racing you could tell something was about to happen...cars darting, shifting, they should NEVER, EVER go to in- car cams or JJ shots.
Post show...none. Ridiculous. I am (was?) a fan of Brad K. But they really needed to show replays of that crash. Although I think it was on the straight away, so not under new rules, it looked like an aggressive move. Would have been great to hear replays and discussion.
Lots of odd wads (Dot :-)) in top 10...no mention. I realize that NASCAR was probably still reviewing tapes, but they could have said "not official", but...
Jerry Punch, wrong role. So sad for him.
As much as I dislike Digger. If this had been FOX, or better yet TNT, both of those booths would have been all over it. With excitement, concern and with interesting and compelling commentary.
If I wasn't such a glutton for punishment watching JR's trials & tribulations, don't know if I would even watch.
ESPN, you don't know how it pains me to say that. I LOVE racing!!
JD..sorry for the long post. So frustrated over something that could be so easily fixed. Thanks for being here for us!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Glen for the correction about the unofficial results. It just seemed to me that it was so confused at the end, no one seemed to know who finished where. Of course, that's probably exactly the case.
ReplyDeleteOnly 3 races to go -- geez, be still my heart.
Just a little clarification here -- not a HMS hater, but I am a Gordon fan, not Johnson's.
Gina, I think you're right, they had no idea at that point. I don't know how long it takes them, but with a dozen cars scattering all different ways, even the 'visual evidence' must be hard to decipher. Of course, a lot of the networks' 'cutting away early' problems could be solved by next year's earlier start times. Then they can schedule in some buffer time.
ReplyDeleteThat was one of theworst produced and worst run races I have ever seen and ahve been following NASCAR since the middle 60's, in a word the telecast and the race sucked.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteGlen, Gina, that point is valid, but at the same time the results on NASCAR.com until late last night were based off the last scoring loop. FOX when they first started freezing the field would go back and break down the finishing order as they froze the field. It was an extra effort that was appreciated but not 100% neccesary. ESPN could have easily run through the order they had via NASCAR's live timing and scoring, reminding us that the results may and probably will change but that it was a good idea of generally where everyone finished.
ReplyDeleteIt was such a disjointed post race.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteDavid, I do know what you mean since I had pitcommand on as well and when it came up with Montoya as the winner, I definitely went "what?". Obviously with the field scattered all over the place, things were a mess, but if ESPN had taken the time to reset the field's running order BEFORE the GWC restart and then at least taken a stab at letting the fans watching at home (and probably at the track, too) as to what the unofficial finishing order had been, it would have been appreciated by all of us. I'll bet the fans at the track didn't know much more than we did either. I had the scanner on and the crew chief's didn't know where they finished up. Stupid.
ReplyDeletefunny, I usually get a "fan council" survey to do today, but nothing so far. I guess NASCAR doesn't want our opinions on that race yesterday. They probably wouldn't be "positive" enough to suit them.
ReplyDeleteI guess my thought is, they wouldn't have known for sure anyways until later...but your point is taken. They could have given what they had and said it may change; I'm pretty sure that's happened before... I just remember seeing the words 'unoffical results' on the TV scoring monitor at some point when McMurray was waving his fist in the car...
ReplyDeleteIt certainly could have been handled better, but then...it's kinda what we've come to expect.
For what it's worth, Jerry Punch is a regular guest on a Knoxville, TN radio station. A caller asked him if he missed calling college football and college basketball games. As you would expect, he said that he does miss it.
ReplyDeleteBut he went on to say he's gone 40-45 weekends a year and it takes a toll on the family. He followed that up by saying he would things at the end of the year to see where things go. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it sounds like Dr. Punch is looking to step aside himself. I know he's become more critical of NASCAR and really came down on them for the junk we saw at Talladega yesterday. That might be something to watch in the coming weeks.
This is tough racing to watch no matter who covers it. The fact that MW finished sixth says it all. This is not real racing and how can it be covered when they ride around most of the race.A must read is Fronstretch's column by Matt McLaughlin about this race especially his views on the truck race broadcast, since I didn't see any coverage of the truck race on this site.
ReplyDeleteThanks for that comment. The hard part for me is that Jerry is such a daggone nice guy.
ReplyDeleteMaybe cutting back on the number of announcers and gadgets on the Nationwide coverage would allow ESPN to bring Jerry out for the final seventeen Sprint Cup Series races in an infield pit studio host role.
I do think that Jerry truly loved college football and from the quality of the current sideline reporters, he would probably be welcomed back with open arms by the fans.
Hopefully, this will sort itself out very soon.
JD
Thats the thing JD, Jerry is arguably one of the BEST reporters this sport has ever, or maybe will ever have had. Give him the freedom to give a concise, quick summary, and allow him to draw on his experience and be Jerry Punch, he's one of the best. In the role that he is used now though, it's just never clicked.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, NASCAR Now opened with a radio call of the race, nuff said.
Great NN so far! I disagree with them a bit, but the effort is superb.
Clearly, the rear deck wing added LIFT to Ryan Newman's COT when his car was backwards. I stated this to the SAE 3+ years ago, since NASCAR rejected my opinion at the time as 'rubbish.'
ReplyDeleteWorse, the wing's position exacerbates any effectivity of the roof flaps to help plant the car by elimination of linear airflow over said roof flaps.
Did NASCAR not consider this ill-conceived COT wing if the car was turned? Obviously not.
This COT is safer than its predecessor. However, with its 'equalizing' specs it is clearly an abortion of mechanical and aerodynamic engineering.
Handcuffing the owners/builders to make it at least raceable smacks of zealous stupidity. It comes with the territory when short-term deepening of pockets rules.
I have no need to comment further on this abortive attempt at a race, or its turgid ESPN/ABC/MickeyMouse channel's coverage.
This has been covered ad infinitum above by fans who request at least accurate and balanced coverage, and for years re: the blatant disregard of the basics of televised journalism, which - after all - all sports are.
The sanctioning body's emperor surely has the cash to buy himself some clothes.
Just to add...
ReplyDeleteSolution: A hinged clear lexan spoiler with solid rear stops and low-force shearable front stops.
First and foremost, this would aid driver rear visibility.
Second, it would also give the sanctioning body its sanctimonious spoiler angle in the forward direction, and allow the lexan spoiler to fold foreward if the COT spins rearward at high speed, allowing the roof flaps to do their job.
Perhaps the sanctioning body should take a look at their own tertiary division, their oldest division, the Modifieds,
whose money they take unashamedly.
Just to reiterate the TDP subject, EEK!SPN's coverage, again and reiterated by many here, immediately lacks camera-select direction and is guttered by oppressive snap-suspenders production.
@USSNewYork - awesome summary of why the ugly car won't stay on the ground! Thanks very much.
ReplyDeleteAnd you are right, Mickey Mouse operation indeed. LOL
@GinaV24,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the reply.
The participants might be mere expendable clowns in the circus; I surely think ESPN might fit that description, based on the comments by posters here.
@ USS NY, good post. The way you explained it, it's like NASCAR never thought the car would go any direction other than forward. This may explain why Joey flipped at Dover (?).
ReplyDeleteWell, it looks like we're not the only ones unhappy with ABC/BSPN's race coverage. Ever hear of Ramsey Poston?
USS this was the debate ALL day on SIRIUS. I am of the opinion that it was not the wing itself solely responsible for cars taking off. Cars flipped before the wing. Remember the 2000 Busch race at Daytona when Jeff Green and Micheal Waltrip both went flipping with the old spoiler?
ReplyDeleteNow your solution is interesting, but so is the counter argument that there are people whose sole lives at NASCAR R&D is developing an answer to that very question and they have yet to come up with it in over 10 years of research.
I see both sides, hopefully they can figure something out soon.
@Dot
ReplyDelete"@ USS NY, good post. The way you explained it, it's like NASCAR never thought the car would go any direction other than forward. This may explain why Joey flipped at Dover (?)."
Thanks for the reply, and... No, the high CG of the COT was more responsible for Joey's pirouette than the obvious aero wing inattentiveness by the sanctioning body.
"Well, it looks like we're not the only ones unhappy with ABC/BSPN's race coverage."
EEK_SPN's yakkers just follow the mother ship's production and direction.
Nothing more than feeding the masses with minimal health care at max take.
"Ever hear of Ramsey Poston?"
Hehe, ever hear of Robert Gibbs?
@David:
ReplyDelete"USS this was the debate ALL day on SIRIUS. I am of the opinion that it was not the wing itself solely responsible for cars taking off. Cars flipped before the wing. Remember the 2000 Busch race at Daytona when Jeff Green and Micheal Waltrip both went flipping with the old spoiler?
I'm old... 'Yep.'
"Now your solution is interesting, but so is the counter argument that there are people whose sole lives at NASCAR R&D is developing an answer to that very question and they have yet to come up with it in over 10 years of research."
This is all about the show.
I answered that question in 1972, in my college thesis - automobile aerodynamics. I had to add a (non-moving) ground plane to the University's wind tunnel to yield more accurate lift/drag measurements (it was a NACA profile WT.)
"I see both sides, hopefully they can figure something out soon."
Always remember that any mother ship has only one money-driven side.
@USS NY -- in other words, the solution already exists and has existed for years, NASCAR simply doesn't want to implement it.
ReplyDeleteHey, wait, I know why! It would change the sacred IROC car! And here I thought the whole idea was for it to be safer. Safer and raceable would be really great IMO
I find it really interesting that NASCAR is more concerned about what ESPN said about the racing than the actual racing itself. Yes ESPN's coverage was horrid, but the racing thanks to NASCAR was just as bad and they need to wake up and smell the roses at Talladega and Daytona and let the crews work on the front of the car more and I also think that the getting rid of that stupid wing would take care of some of the problems of the car staying on the ground and making the car look more like a production car much like they are doing with the Nationwide series. Come on NASCAR, wake up.
ReplyDeleteKeep the comments open, this post will remain available through Thursday.
ReplyDeleteOh good lord.....where to begin. I'll try not to re-rehash all the stuff everybody's covered so far except for one thing: JIMMIE JOHNSON.
ReplyDeleteWhat is ESPN thinking? From laps 150-180, while there was snarling, spectactular action at the front of the field, they elected to give us updates of Jimmie every 2 laps, whilst showing a tight shot of his car going NOWHERE in the back of the pack, where he'd been ALLLLL day.
I understand that he's the points leader....I KNOW.
But we waited all day for the race to FINALLY get competitive and exciting and what do we get? GARBAGE.
When you're cutting out 30+ cars competing door-to-door to show one guy running by himself in the back of the pack (EVERY 60 seconds).....something is soooo wrong.
But you all know that just as well as I do. That's why we're here.....to p*** and moan about the coverage of our sport as we slowly watch the higher-ups flush it down the toilet.
Talk about depressing....
Josh Smith
Mexico, ME
Didn't anyone, anywhere do an analysis of how many laps out of the 188 were ride around? And if that insane peson exists, did they happen to do it for the April race or previous years? Folks seem to imply this was worse than previous. Any imperical data to back that up? Not saying it wasn't boring. Just curious.
ReplyDeleteUSs New York....great posts!
Can't say for sure because I haven't been 'crazy' enough to actually verify it, but if I remember correctly, there was close to 90 laps of racing where the front 20 cars (if not ALL of them) were in line and and holding at half-throttle.
ReplyDeleteThe norm (for the line racing) is about 50 laps, but they typically still run wide open.
I will say that anybody who's actually seen more than 5 races in their lifetime would definitly NOT say this was the most boring race ever.
It simply a combination of MISERABLE coverage (especially towards the end), constantly flipping cars, and NASCAR trying to play god, much to the chagrin of John Q. Nascarfan and the drivers.
PLease please please, nobody accuse me of supporting the 'brass' in Daytona, but there *WERE* 58 lead changes between 25 drivers.
From what I can tell, that makes this past Sunday's race one of the 10 or 15 most competitive races in cup history.
Apologies, JD, for the non-broadcast related comments. I just saw somebody had a question and I felt compelled to give my 2 cents.
WCD, I swear if we look at the Spring Dega thread here, it would say the same thing about them going single file. It happened in 2005 in the fall race too when Jr took the lead. It happened in 2007. It happens WAYYYY more often and anyone wants to realize, I just think perhaps Robin Pemberton was on the money here by saying ABC cast a negative light on the situation and by doing so people are complaining worse than usual.
ReplyDeleteJust to close the loop for ESPN
ReplyDelete1 change the booth
2 get a director that understand the sport
3 stop telling us what YOUR soryline is.
4 Don't wait till next year.
Smiff 99 & David....thanks.
ReplyDeleteSmiff, it really isn't OT, because we are trying to determine if the race was boring due to the coverage...my vote, or the "new rules" (really old rules, enforced)which led to the "peleton" (very good WCK) among other things.
I learn more aobut the race through the driver's personal radio. Of course Kasey is so damn nosy and wants to know everything that is going on around him. I think the problem is outside of Dale Jarrett, the announcers know nothing about Nascar. Plus what made me upset is they make the guys come to pit road for a top 3 interview and who do they hunt down? Jimmie Johnson. Kasey Kahne and Joey Logano don't get recognition for their 2nd and 3rd place finishes. Heck interview them together. I'm surprised they even interviewed Jamie in victory lane at this point,
ReplyDeleteoh and in addition to my comment. Kasey Kahne's PR posted on Twitter that she asked ABC why they didn't interview the 2nd and 3rd place finishers, they claimed all their reporters were in victory lane and at the care center so they had no one for pit road. But Jimmie and... I'm not positive but I think Jeff was hunted down also.
ReplyDelete