Friday at 8PM Eastern Daylight Time, ESPN2 will telecast the Busch Series race from Charlotte live. The program is not followed by another live event, so there is no problem with an over-run of the scheduled off-time of 11PM.
The Busch race will feature Allen Bestwick in the Infield Studio with Brad Daugherty alongside. In the announce booth will be Dr. Jerry Punch, Rusty Wallace, and Andy Petree. Working on pit road will be Dave Burns, Jamie Little, Mike Massaro, and Shannon Spake. Tim Brewer will be in the Tech Center.
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225 comments:
1 – 200 of 225 Newer› Newest»interesting tidbit from jayski - posted for info purposes only
BUT: Upon retirement, sources say that Jarrett will continue to expand on his new career in television broadcasting
could crusty be headed out the door?
Before the race begins, I want to express my concern about the ratings of the Busch Series races on ESPN. From the ratings news usually posted each week on That's Racin.com or Jayski, I've noticed Busch ratings are down slightly compared to last year in almost every race. Not as dramatic a drop as Cup ratings have taken in the past two years, but still down.
I can't blame ESPN on this one, because they did promote the Busch Series at the beginning of the year. (For a while I couldn't get away from that excellent series of commercials they had with the Busch drivers- they were everywhere on ESPN.) But I'm wondering what NASCAR and ESPN can do together to at least keep the ratings even from year to year.
My concern also comes from reading in the New York Times yesterday that ESPN ratings for Monday Night Football are skyrocketing. (Other than the top-rated Disney progam "High School Musical", the next four highest rated cable shows of the *YEAR* are MNF broadcasts.) Combine that with record ratings for baseball this week (highest ever ratings this week for TBS) and NFL Sunday Night Football being the #4 program of the week,(right behind "Grey's Anatomy"). It doesn't make NASCAR's declining ratings look very good.
So where does that leave NASCAR in ESPN's and ABC's priority? They can easily say that interest dictates that viewers don't want to see much of NASCAR on SportsCenter or post race coverage (or in ABC primetime). It didn't help that the two NASCAR-oriented programs in primetime - "Fast Cars and Superstars" and "NASCAR in Primetime" - were complete ratings failures.
ESPN is a business, and they're going to put their focus in growth areas.
Any ideas from anyone on how to draw more eyeballs to the Busch series?
anonymous 11:26, good comments. I'm not sure why the ratings for Busch races are down. The prevailing thinking is the series needs the Cup guys to bring in the ratings. But they are already there, so why are the ratings down? It has to be something else.
Most of the races are on Saturday afternoons. And the season is just as long as the Cup season, maybe too long. I know that some weekends we are out with the family and don't have time to watch two races, so I'm going to choose the Cup race. Maybe others are the same.
I know one thing- I've seen some commenters on The Daly Planet who think TV ratings aren't important and sort of express the view that NASCAR is unsinkable. Not all, but some. NASCAR's value rose when it's TV ratings increased every year when other sports ratings were declining. Now it is reversed.
when the seats at Busch races are 70% empty, you can't expect good ratings on TV, either.
There's been talk of creating a Chase for the Busch Series. It doesn't seem to have given the ratings for the Nextel Cup much of a boost so it may not be the best idea.
ESPN also just acquired the rights to the first two rounds of The Masters for 2008, so they're getting back into the golf business.
Looks like the replay of the Friday Masters coverage on ESPN from 8-11 PM (after live coverage in the afternoon), will air directly against a good part of the Busch race coverage from Phoenix on April 11 on ESPN2. It's a night race.
Hmmm...I wonder which event ESPN will promote more - the second round of the Masters or the Busch/Nationwide race?
I think we all know the answer to that.
As somebody who grew up in a family of golfers, I TRULY HATE hearing ESPN got the rights to the MASTERS. Ugh.
Usually it is shown with limited commercial interruption. LEast on the weekend.
I am sure ESPN will find a way to cheapen golf some more.
It's all ready been cheapened in recent years. YOU NEVER EVER heard the gallery scream "GET IN THE HOLE" after a golf shot back in the olden days. Now it's a bunch of yayhoos but I digress.
:-)
SophiaZ123 said...
As somebody who grew up in a family of golfers, I TRULY HATE hearing ESPN got the rights to the MASTERS. Ugh.
Usually it is shown with limited commercial interruption. LEast on the weekend.
Sophia, out of all the sports I would think that Golf would be the easiest when it comes to commercials, I mean what else can they show while they are walking to the ball?
BillWebz
You mean ESPN has never missed a Tee-Off? Go figure.
How long does it take a golfer to circle the green under yellow?
I believe the reason why Busch races are down in ratings is that 17 to 20 drivers for each race are cup guys and I think Busch Series purists (like I am) want to see more full time Busch series teams in the races. But Nascar has made their bed with this they are going to have to lie in it. There are former champs who can still race but are sitting home because of this. Rusty has it right on this one. Look back at California Busch race, did the cup drivers bring fans to the track - NO.
Bill,
they follow multiple groups so different guys are walking at different paces.:-) and they can always show replays.
Also, the limited commercial interruption IS NICE so that one can enjoy the beauty that is Augusta in springtime.
:-)
p.s. I was not trying to imply the ease of commercials around a slow paced event compared to auto racing, LOL.
Anonymous said...
Hmmm...I wonder which event ESPN will promote more - the second round of the Masters or the Busch/Nationwide race?
I think we all know the answer to that.
And I think we all know that the majority of sports fans would rather watch 2nd round of the masters rather than an early season Nationwide Race, and I'm a fan. The avg fan is not going to know what the Nationwide series is, ARCA..Procup..Outlaws..NASCAR I think will have a hard time with the casual fan, who might have known the Busch series.
The Busch series suffer because it is an exact clone of the Cup series. IF the series ran at different tracks, including many short tracks, I think the ratings would improve.
People say all the ratings are down then all the fans believe this, lose hope, and forget to watch the race. That's what the problem is. And because of this fans start to actually believe NASCAR is smaller and less important than other sports, when in reality NASCAR has the 2nd largest fan base of any sport in the USA.
Well, i watch the truck, bush and cup races each week. And sometimes ARCA.
Also sometimes IRL and less often, parts of F1.
I thought it was bogus the figures on NASCAR being second, though I wish that were true.
I heard a local sports talk host talking about the ASTRONOMICAL ratings of an NFL game against a post season Baseball game. YIKES. Even he was surprised.
I just can't believe the NFL is so popular as the plethora of behavioral issues are appalling ni these guys private lives. A local tristate team is ALWAYS making news.
NASCAR guys may not be angels but have values.
ALSO, MY THEORY on the poor ratings is the RACES ARE TOO MIND NUMBINGLY LONG.
I love racing but honestly, most stick and ball sports have set times. 500 miles can go on forever.
I have heard many say the same thing. Many CUP races are too long.
Pocono comes to mind but to be honest, NOT ALL CUP races need to be 500 miles and a shorter race would mean MORE BUSY FAMILIES could afford to watch.
Just my two cents.
You guys talk about races being too long, but how can that be the cause of the recent ratings problems? The races have always been the same length so how can that become a problem all of a sudden? When ratings were higher, were the races shorter? NO!
well, I am only going by what many say and have only been watching since last part of 2004.
Maybe you veterans here could explain, don't they throw lots more cautions than they used to for "debris" and this causes delays?
Otherwise, I dunno...but many think the 500 miles is overkill as do I at many tracks.
Perhaps others can be free to disagree but a race starting at 2 and ending around 6.30 or 7 is way too long.
Also, years ago, the race started EARLIER, less pre -race minutia and the race was over by dinnertime.
Not to bring up that whole timezone thing again. Just going by what HUNDREDS of long time fans have said.
;-)
Part of the appeal of NASCAR to me is the endurance factor. If they would shorten the races I, for one, would be disappointed.
agreed.
The problem with the ratings for the Busch series is that almost every race is on cable (espn2) ... Nascar & Mickey Mouse seem to forget that NOT everybody has cable or satellite ... Some people are still on the old fashioned bunny ears & aerial antennas ...
Emdurance factor for the drivers....
Or the viewers! :-)
Me I have time to watch the races but have no kids or family obligations...just going by what busier folks say around the boards and in columns.
But some tracks feel like an endurance contest to watch.
=:-o
You get commercials to step away from the TV; the drivers do not.
They started Countdown 5 minutes early (at 7:25). I feel forry for DVR users.
Ahhhhhhhhh, classic Bestwick!!!!
I can't stand hearing an aging rocker scream at me. Get rid of them.
come on... 5 minutes? would you rather have commercials during that time? doc had to toss to someone so they can get a break before the race. So why not get a bonus edition of countdown. By the way, countdown did not officially start, with intro and all, until 4:30. All you saw was a time filler labeled as countdown. Kind of like what speed does with NASCAR Live.
Also, I thought Alan's piece about next years teams was interesting.
Wish ESPN and Rusty would stop with the whole risk vs reward about cup guys in the Busch series. That horse has left the barn get over it
I feel ratings are down because NASCAR has let the true fan down. We are leaving in droves because too many changes. We don't like the COT. We don't like all the new drivers coming into the sport the have not even seen a dirt track. We don't like going outside of the U.S. to race. We don't like closing tracks that have been a part of NASCAR since the beginning. Many other reasons too.
It's all adding up folks, in the stands and in the TV ratings.
Since I was already watching Happy Hour live on ESPN2 I don't mind the early start for Countdown. I'm just making a point that had I DVR'ed this race instead of watching it live I would have been pretty upset. I think it would have been better to spend 5 more minutes focusing on the Cup Series and hold to the 7:30 start for Countdown.
I'm enjoying the Countdown show so far. Simple is much better. Just 3 guys that know racing talking about racing. Unfortunately tomorrow Suzy and Brent will be back in the fold to give us all headaches. Does anyone at ESPN notice that Busch race pre-race shows get mostly praise while the Cup races get all the complaints?
AB does such a great job, keeps it flowing right along by tossing the right question to the right erson. Wish is was calling the race but no such luck.....
another worthless Tech Center moment from Brewer.
why doesn't ESPN have a car to show us how the track is handling like "SPEED 1" or the car that DW drives before every race?
MONEY PERHAPS
Yeah I'm a NASCAR fan and was very excited to hear that ESPN was going to show us what Kyle Busch's infraction was, but even I didn't learn a thing from that Tech Center moment. Did anyone else respond to that segment with a "Huh?" or did I miss something?
I have attended a lot of NASCAR races at a lot of tracks. I have walked the track, been in the garage area and pit road. I have never seen the grid or starting grid that ESPN keeps harping on.
I was confused until I realized that this is one of those ESPN branded things. :)
think Brad wants a brouhhaha
stricklinfan:
I agree, I also wanted to see what NASCAR considered illegal on Busch's intake manifold, but what ESPN just did was completely worthless if they couldn't show one of the supposedly illegal manifolds.
they should have just shown the breaking valve train video again. LOL
Anonymous said...
why doesn't ESPN have a car to show us how the track is handling like "SPEED 1" or the car that DW drives before every race?
October 12, 2007 7:56 PM
~~~
Maybe nobody at ESPN can drive a stick.
MEOW HISS!?
:-)
Just kidding.
It's not clamity corner it's turn 4. The only we calling it that are you. Please stop Rusty. Brad is suppose to be the fan of the people ie a representing what the fans want. Most fans want racing not crashing but then ESPN hasn't figured out what constitutes a nascar fan
I don't understand all the sudden concern for the Cup drivers running in the Busch races. ESPN's been talking about this all week and I just don't understand why this week is such a big concern when all of the other weeks haven't been. Apparently drivers can't get hurt racing the Busch Series at Daytona, Talladega, or Bristol, only Lowe's. If the concern is about the Chase for Nextel Cup, why wasn't running the Busch Series a concern at Dover or Kansas?
It's a legitimate point that a Chaser could get hurt racing in the Busch Series. I just don't know why it's being brought up so many times this week at Charlotte when it's been largely ignored the rest of the year.
They need Chad, Bootie and Larry Mac to explain that manifold I understand them most of the time on Nascar Performance and I need to read the manual to add windshield washer fluid
You know how you can draw what you think about and imagine, or visualize?
I am beginning to think Rusty and Brad WANT to see crashing in that one corner.
I hope all goes well for all drivers.
I LOVE night racing!
The injury thing is getting old, didn;t someone break a toe at home by hitting a table or something. Not to mention golf cart surfing and running around the hauler. Heck I broke an ankle in my own house
Voice of the fan
you choose:
Brad Dougherty on ESPN
or
Rutledge Wood on Speed
Ok...Jeff Burton was STOPPED for a moment...that had me nervous.
Yes, Martin Truex Jr stubbed his little toe on a hassock or coffee table.
They need to stop calling Brad the "voice of the people / fans" ... He's not ... He doesn't represent me or anyone that I know ... Espn, give it a rest ...
I like Rusty ... But, I think they need to switch out Punch or Petree and put Allen in the booth ...
Jamie has replaced Bill Weber as the tv "drama queen" ... Guess she never saw the 8 zillion commercials on TNT saying "Drama lives on TNT" ...
Rutledge
Don't take Petrie out of the booth he's the only one who watches the race and not the monitor. I would actually say Rutledge is more representative as silly as he is it's about the drivers having fun and us watching them doing it not waiting for crashes in clamity corner
Oh god, Doc has already brought out the "sailing" reference.
Did you notice how comfortable Andy Petree was after Rusty left during Happy Hour.
The Comebacks commercial was awful. Not for general veiwing. Sleezy.
Bravo to ESPN for mentioning the "start and park drivers" that already retired from the race.
My favorite line of the whole year was by Allen Bestwick in the booth at the Milwaukee Busch race when he recapped all the cars that had retired in the opening laps and mentioned that he sensed the presence of "a serious case of short field / start and park disease" in the air. Priceless!
going back a bit-
I only heard part of it; but, does Mike think that the car owner championship ends tonight?
Maybe if some company had some guts to sponsor Morgan Shepard, he'd be able to run the whole race ...
Jamie didn't know "who" Jeffrey Earnhardt was ... Or did she get choked up over how much he looks like his Uncle Jr and Grampa ??
What's the point of having a "triple pit split" with running clocks showing their pit stop times if you're going to switch to a full screen view of Greg Biffle's pit stop before the other 3 cars finish their stops?
I think Mike was implying that Carl could sit out the remaining races IF he clinched the driver's championship ... But, that he'd still have to run the 4 races IF he wanted to try to get the owner's championship ... It just sounded a little confusing ...
Ok, the announcers questioned how Keselowski gained 29 spots on his pit stop before the break. Now he's nowhere to be seen. Obviously he either missed his pit stall and came back in the next lap or ran 190 mph down pit road and got sent to the tail end of the longest line. Any follow-up ESPN ??????
Thanks
Stricklanfan
About your 3 pit screen comment...certainly you know by now ESPN's job is to irritate us as they make up the camera shots as they go along in the races.
I agree. Makes not a lick of sense.
I am also amazed THESE ESPN CAMERAS NEVER EVER CATCH a crash live...RARELY. My goodness.
HORRIBLE camera coverage..as always.
He missed his pit stall. Thanks to trackpass radio broadcast
I gotta stop typing during the race...I am too slow.
I TOTALLY missed what happened to Brad K after the next few laps from his amazing 29 lead.
Thanks for the Brad update.
Marcos...always so grateful and positive and smiling...even when challenged.
Keselowski 29th or something??
I want my MRN!!
And tomorrow will only have PRN.
Finally a follow-up on Keselowski. Better late than never I guess.
SOMEBODY is reading this site...after we griped no Brad K follow up, DA DA! They 'splained it just now.
There you go, ESPN clarified the Brad K situation.
Keselowski 29th or something??
I want my MRN!!
And tomorrow will only have PRN.
WoW! Lots of EMPTY seats on some weird camera zoom. Anybody else see that?
I hate it when Dr. Punch announces the top 5 in their inverse order going to break. ESPN spends way to much time trying the re-invent the wheel with their broadcasts. Let's just hope "draft lock" never rears its ugly head again.
what do you mean none of the cameras catch a crash live? You may not see it live, but you do see it in a replay. The cameras did catch it! if they did not you would not see it in a replay. BTW ESPN has caught a number a crashes live...But its not like your here just for the crashes, right?
MRN only (mostly) at tracks not owned by NASCAR/ISC - Bruton Smith/Humpy Wheeler Speedway Motorsports Inc tracks contract with PRN.
Mark Garrow is a great broadcaster. Did Busch races for TNT few years ago.
Is that what he did I got so confused I had to check the live leaderboard on nascar.com
stricklinfan82 said...
Let's just hope "draft lock" never rears its ugly head again.
October 12, 2007 8:50 PM
You may not have liked it, but it did explain the situation well for new fans.
I just mean with less wide angle shots to give a more precise perspective of the race, and I am not counting GOOGLE SHOTS, if a car bumps the wall or spins (NOT A WRECK) we rarely see it in live time.
SPEED or Fox catches more stuff as it happens the first time. That's all. Chill out.
I am not talking like Brad I LOVE THE VIOLENCE AND WRECKS Daughterty.
[;-)
I like the fact the ESPN is actually focusing on the owner's championship. They basically ignored the #01 team's attempt to make the Owner's Chase for the Nextel Cup in the final weeks leading up to Richmond so I hope they continue focusing on this owner's championship race through the end of the season. I'm sure a lot of people could care less about it but I actually find it to be important.
Boy, there's been a lot of talk about how dominant Carl Edwards has been this year but looking at the owner's points can you imagine how far ahead Denny Hamlin or Kevin Harvick would be had they driven the 20 and 21 cars all season long? Having drivers like Timothy Peters, Tim McCredie, Aric Almirola, and Travis Kittleson in those 2 cars cost those teams a ton of points, yet they're still right there with the 60 car in the owner's standings.
so far, on three major message boards I read and numerous columns, NOBODY liked the "Draft Lock" and it was another ESP Nvention.
:-O
followup to camera coverage
cameras are owned by NASCAR images and not by ESPN. Cameraman also.
They take their orders from the director as in what to follow so perhaps missing a crash is ESPN's fault but don't blame the cameraman.
A camera shot cant cover all 3 cars so you will be missing 39 (of 43) cars easily.
Speed/fox seems to know who to follow they see something developing and follow those cars. I don't know if it's better camera men or the guys in the booth pointing it out. Does anyone know who telling the cameras what cars to focus on at what time
Anonymous @ 8:53 PM -- Ya made a lil booboo ... MRN is owned by ISC so it is at those tracks (Daytona, etc) ... PRN is owned by SMI (Bruton Smith) so it's at tracks like Charlotte & Bristol ... Indy has their own radio network & doesn't use MRN/PRN ...
Brad thinks Jimmie will be up front soon?? Does he ever watch this particular race or series?? Busch series, esp at LMS, is NOT Jimmie's strong suit ...
Looks like someone answered my question as I was typing. Get a better director
Gotta love those HD cameras. Makes it hard to watch anything in SD anymore.
Rusty and Andy seem to be competing, doesn't sound good
SophiaZ123 said...
so far, on three major message boards I read and numerous columns, NOBODY liked the "Draft Lock" and it was another ESP Nvention.
:-O
October 12, 2007 8:58 PM
Obviously. The people who post there are probably knowledgeable fans. What I'm saying is that this helps explain the effects of drafting to NEW fans. They tend to visit those forums left often.
ESPN tend to be focusing a lot on dale Jr. Is this reasonable?
You guys better stop criticizing the director or you're gonna make Erik post another one of his "ESPN is great, how dare you criticize them!" posts.
Brad was a owner in the Busch but obviously not lately. Jimmie is not good in the Busch series and today is no exception still 21st.
Here comes Mr Total Devistation Tim Brewer with an aero tip. Rusty must be so jealuous. Tim beat him to aero talk.
I am sure there have been dozens of football terms John Madden invented while broadcasting. That is just par for the course. Some of them stick, some don't.
I do not believe the director or the guys in the both tell the camera operator where to look. they are too busy. This is the job of someone else at the track that works for ESPN.
Biased coverage for the 8 and 88 - yeah lets focus on the 12th and 27th place cars. Great, how about the other 41 cars?
What was that a video clip of Carl during live racing and then going to commercial. Just go to commercial and come back to the race>>>>but now there is a caution for debrie (radio)guess it's time for more commercials.
stricklinfan82,
ESPN is great, how dare you criticize them!
What's the point of having a "triple pit split" with running clocks showing their pit stop times if you're going to switch to a full screen view of Greg Biffle's pit stop before the other 3 cars finish their stops?
See, they do this a lot, and it is one of the clearest signs that they don't understand the sport. They also show a clock on individual cars, but then cut away before the stop is complete--which makes the clock pointless.
ESPN's guys just don't get it.
They tend to visit those forums left often.
October 12, 2007 9:04 PM
I meant LESS often
Thanks for the clarity on MRN and PRN, I gotta make sure to type that out for next season so I am not surprised when I turn on the dial.
:-)
Thanks anon who notices FOX/SPEED sees 'what's happening' on the track. I see we have an ESPN apologist.
It's not like ESPN is the FIRST to cover motorsports and other directors or let's make this easier PIC (People in charge) have figured it out.
Last year, we sometimes noticed NBC or TNT seemed to be short on cameras at Busch races..especially the ones at separate tracks from the CUP. THAT makes sense not to have the same number of cameras.
But if other stations can PAY ATTENTION to what's happening with flying debris, wall kissing, spins or crashing, that was my earlier point I was trying to make.
Sorry that other 'anon' extrapolated I was a crash hungry drunken fan.
Sheesh
Did Doc just say Shannon "Spank" ?
I was a new fan myself 15 years ago and we didn't have "Draft Lock" back then and guess what? I learned what drafting was just by listening to the announcers explain it. If we didn't need "Draft Lock" back then, new fans don't need it now.
One point about tonight's race: does it seem that the director is just too overwhelemed by all the camera choices he has? He seems to be making some really odd (poor) choices like using the camera on top on the frontstretch to show action on the backstretch and the large amount of speedshot angles.
It's pretty obvious that this crew needs to LOOK OUT THE WINDOW. I don't know why they're bothering to be at the track if all they do is stare at the TV monitors.
Anonymous said...
What's the point of having a "triple pit split" with running clocks showing their pit stop times if you're going to switch to a full screen view of Greg Biffle's pit stop before the other 3 cars finish their stops?
See, they do this a lot, and it is one of the clearest signs that they don't understand the sport. They also show a clock on individual cars, but then cut away before the stop is complete--which makes the clock pointless.
ESPN's guys just don't get it.
October 12, 2007 9:10 PM
I disagree. You don't need to see the full time of the pit stop to tell if they are on time or doing something wrong. I believe the clock is there to see if the team is ON TRACK for a good pit stop.
The people who post there are probably knowledgeable fans. What I'm saying is that this helps explain the effects of drafting to NEW fans.
Should we also make graphics to explain what a foul ball is? Or what all those colored lines on the ice mean?
OK, 17 comes in with one to go and the booth has NO IDEA why!! But they know why Jr came in.
Anonymous said...
I do not believe the director or the guys in the both tell the camera operator where to look. they are too busy. This is the job of someone else at the track that works for ESPN.
First off- The Guys in the booth HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH CAMERAS. That would be the job of the Director. He DIRECTS the cameras. Yeah it would be the job of someone who works for ESPN - The DIRECTOR.
Matt said...
I was a new fan myself 15 years ago and we didn't have "Draft Lock" back then and guess what? I learned what drafting was just by listening to the announcers explain it. If we didn't need "Draft Lock" back then, new fans don't need it now.
October 12, 2007 9:11 PM
You guys are not being nice to new fans. you may not have had it easy to learn about the sport but don't you think you could make it easy for others to come in?
I disagree. You don't need to see the full time of the pit stop to tell if they are on time or doing something wrong. I believe the clock is there to see if the team is ON TRACK for a good pit stop.
14 seconds. And something can go wrong at 13:55 that totally destroys the stop. But if you cut away from it before that, the clock showing them "on track" meant nothing.
And ESPN misses all the action on the track ... You got a live view of Kyle's save....
You guys are not being nice to new fans. you may not have had it easy to learn about the sport but don't you think you could make it easy for others to come in?
Do they explain the line of scrimmage every NFL game? That would make it easier for new fans, too.
Anonymous said...
The people who post there are probably knowledgeable fans. What I'm saying is that this helps explain the effects of drafting to NEW fans.
Should we also make graphics to explain what a foul ball is? Or what all those colored lines on the ice mean?
October 12, 2007 9:14 PM
Those sports are not puruing new fans are much as NASCAR is trying to do.
Those sports are not pursuing new fans are much as NASCAR is trying to do.
And Erik, ESPN totally misses Bobby Santos' accident.
I can't believe they actually caught Kyle doing his side-winder impression LIVE ...
Those sports are not pursuing new fans are much as NASCAR is trying to do.
Oh. I see. So they should alienate the long-term fans who've supported this sport for years in the hopes of attracting new ones that may or may not stick around.
Should we also make graphics to explain what a foul ball is? Or what all those colored lines on the ice mean?
Yep, it happens. Watch a local hockey broadcast in a new market.
SophiaZ123 said...
Thanks anon who notices FOX/SPEED sees 'what's happening' on the track. I see we have an ESPN apologist.
October 12, 2007 9:11 PM
Just because some people don't hate EVERYTHING about the ESPN broadcast, that makes those who disagree apologists?
Yep, it happens. Watch a local hockey broadcast in a new market.
Of course, we are NOT watching a local broadcast at all here...
It's easy to follow Kyle he's always sideways let's see what else they catch
If you're watching your first ever football game on Monday Night Football and ESPN mentions that a field goal missed to the right because the wind blew it that direction, do they show a replay with imaginary blue and yellow gusts of air moving the ball to the right? No.
The same applies to NASCAR. If they tell you that two cars running nose-to-tail at Talladega run faster than one car, that's all that needs to be said. They don't need to draw imaginary white wind flowing over those two cars. That is called ridiculous overkill.
Key phrase Erik, "new market." No NATIONAL broadcasts do that. Know why? Because they cater to the majority.
Erik - Who is WE
You do NOT WORK FOR ESPN already. Stop the charade.
Anonymous said...
Those sports are not pursuing new fans are much as NASCAR is trying to do.
Oh. I see. So they should alienate the long-term fans who've supported this sport for years in the hopes of attracting new ones that may or may not stick around.
October 12, 2007 9:19 PM
Look I'm not saying NASCAR is going about this the best way. all i am saying is that Draft lock helped new fans. even JD agrees. look as his post following the dega broadcast.
all i am saying is that Draft lock helped new fans.
Maybe, I don't buy it as an accurate depiction, so maybe not,
But explaining NFL rules--even the aforemention field-goal kick--with animations would help new fans, too, but I don't see anyone doing that.
Erik - Who is WE
You do NOT WORK FOR ESPN already. Stop the charade.
Show me the post where I said 'WE'?
way to go ESPN - Jamie McMurray crash - saw it live - credit where credit is due. Probably just luck too be honest but way to go.
O, man...I don't like the sudden turn of events....hated to see Jamie M head towards the garage....
:(
p.s. That IS interesting how sometimes the onboard cam is the one involved in a crash...course one can't plant that...Sorry to see Jamie out though. USually though, a savvy PIC finds the track action whether it's a spin or a huge piece of debris on de track.
Erik said...
Should we also make graphics to explain what a foul ball is? Or what all those colored lines on the ice mean?
Yep, it happens. Watch a local hockey broadcast in a new market.
October 12, 2007 9:20 PM
Here's the we
I don't think people are complaining about not seeing the wrecks completely live from start to finish like McMurray's crash. That's just dumb luck because there's 43 cars racing on a 1.5 mile track and every car can't be on the screen at the same time.
I think what people are referring to is the very long lag time ESPN seems to have catching accidents in progress. It seems that every wreck is LONG over before the crashed car ever appears on ESPN, while other networks usually catch at least the tail end of the accident as it happened live.
Why is it that NBC was always able to break out of a commercial when something happened on the track, but ESPN/ABC insists that it's impossible to do that?
(Yes, I know what a local break is, and that's not what I mean.)
Stricklanfan
THANK YOU for 'getting' the point I was making about the camera work.
Let's keep the comments in reference to the race folks.
Anonymous said...
Why is it that NBC was always able to break out of a commercial when something happened on the track, but ESPN/ABC insists that it's impossible to do that?
(Yes, I know what a local break is, and that's not what I mean.)
October 12, 2007 9:33 PM
I might be wrong, but I believe NBC aired commercials right from the truck, while ESPN airs commercials from HQ in Bristol. Therefor it is hard for ESPN to coordinate the break-in and easier for NBC.
I agree but It's not just wrecks where the is a lag time. Focus always seems to be on the led cars or "important" drivers instead of showing good hard racing because I am sure it's happpening on the track. I've been to a race I can find the action why can't ESPN
That IS a good question about why can't ESPN break out of a commercial to go back to the track...maybe I need to ask JD that in his Q&A deal this week.
(sophia makes note to self)
Blaney to garage. WTH? Electrical???. Bummer
That's not right. ESPN has broken out of commercials at times this year (Brad Keselowski's crash at California comes to mind). As evidenced tonight, they don't cut out for every debris caution like NBC used to. NBC actually had a good strategy with that because it forced the fans to watch the commercials if they wanted to be sure not to miss anything.
Erik, do you work at ESPN? If so, are you part of today's race production?
Remember we missed Jeff Gordons PASS for the lead and win last week.
I never saw THAT until INC.
stricklinfan82 said...
That's not right. ESPN has broken out of commercials at times this year (Brad Keselowski's crash at California comes to mind). As evidenced tonight, they don't cut out for every debris caution like NBC used to. NBC actually had a good strategy with that because it forced the fans to watch the commercials if they wanted to be sure not to miss anything.
October 12, 2007 9:40 PM
Im not saying the never have or can't, im saying they are less likely to than NBC
NBC actually had a good strategy with that because it forced the fans to watch the commercials if they wanted to be sure not to miss anything.
Yep, I did.
Erik,
That's total BS. We all crushed Speed Channel for their horrible coverage of qualifying at Talladega. Get over your love of ESPN and thinking everyone has a grudge against your network. We hate bad coverage, no matter what network it's on. We same people used to love ESPN in the old days when they did a good job of broadcasting.
SophiaZ123 said...
Remember we missed Jeff Gordons PASS for the lead and win last week.
I never saw THAT until INC.
October 12, 2007 9:41 PM
I think I remember ABC re-aired the pass before they went off the air.
This post is for comments about tonight's race. If people are going to just complain or make excuses because of the network, than we will close this comment board for the night.
JD
WOW! Another near miss about PIT ROAD again.
NASCAR needs to fix this issue...happened a lot this year.
Remember Kyle Bush got screwed big time...I don't like him as a racer but thought it was a bum deal.
Lots of oil from the blown engine indeed.
So, Kasey, Kyle & Biffle are monkeys ... according to Rusty ... LOL
Kibbles & Bits car blows during commercial ...
JD, you hit the nail on the head, this has turned into a gripe session.
I still don't like the coverage.
I guess we'll have to wait to Febuary.
JD, can you clarify what you don't want?
Have we heard from Jason Keller since the race started?
Another example of the In-Race Reporter being completely useless, unless they happen to get lucky and choose a driver that runs up front and is a relevant part of the story for the win like Carl Edwards at Bristol for example.
We have now...cautions out
HOLY SMOKE!! Big crash
Rusty (after the "big one"): "another example of risk reward"
I don't think it's appropriate to pound your chest for suggesting earlier that a Cup driver could get hurt racing in the Busch Series, especially when no one knows yet whether or not any of the drivers were actually injured or not.
And it was caught live on camera. I think there are only a few signs one can look for to predict a crash. most of the time it is just luck. FOX or ESPN can try there hardest to predict a crash but you cant always do so.
Please no more risk vs reward. And they are not chasers in the Busch series. How about a list of cars involved
Anonymous said...
Erik said...
Should we also make graphics to explain what a foul ball is? Or what all those colored lines on the ice mean?
Yep, it happens. Watch a local hockey broadcast in a new market.
October 12, 2007 9:20 PM
Here's the we
October 12, 2007 9:30 PM
uh, that was a quote from another post... I didn't say the 'WE'.
I hope Carl is ok...taking a while to get out.
They need the pointy thing when they are so far away...I could tell nothiing from that way overhead shot.
Wow...was that inside wall a SAFER barrier..somebody did not sound well on the radio...
risk/reward about the spring rubber vs track position. now that makes sense to me. thanks DB
Brad - What was that you said about Jimmie going to be up in the front trying to go for the win??
Jimmie was 6th! and how is brad gong to predict a crash?
The risk/reward is a legitimate point but that shouldn't have been the first thing out of Rusty's mouth while a pile of detroyed race cars are finally coming to a stop after a huge crash. What if, God forbid, Carl or Jimmie didn't get out of that car or got out of the car limping severely?
Rusty had a legitimate point but how about waiting until the drivers get out of the car and saying something like "thankfully everyone's okay in this instance but that's what I meant earlier about risk/reward".
Did he just say amirillo
again...espn catches the action live. you did not give espn a chance to prove what they can do. Also Rusty said "oh" before we saw the crash.
cRusty just called Almirola Amirillo.
If a name have more than two syllables, leave it to cRusty to screw it up.
How did that last car hit the other wrecked cars?
slide on the oil?
Wow...this is a bummer.
Biffle wrecked again. &^%$#!
Wow the car being towed leaking LOTS of stuff. They better clean up this track really well.
Come on guys... I don't think Rusty's mispronunciations are critical to your viewing of the race. I did not hear anyone complaining about Larry mac.
They follow the "Chase" drivers all night, but when the 48 spins, suddenly, there's no shot to show the ver beginning of the spin.
I will give ESPN, specifically Rusty Wallace credit. Their two pre-race stories were the potential of crashes in turn 4 and the risk/reward of Cup drivers racing in the Busch Series. There have been several incidents of guys losing it in turn 4 and some of the Chasers were in crashes that could have (but thankfully didn't) result in injury.
Rusty was absolutely right, but I still have an issue with Rusty re-inforcing the risk/reward point just seconds after Edwards, Kenseth, and Johnson finished crashing. No one should ever speculate that a driver could be hurt, no matter how bad the crash is. Rusty did a similar thing at California when Keselowski crashed. Within seconds he brought up comparisons to Dale Sr.'s fatal crash at Daytona. Rusty, the points are legitimate but I feel you need to be a little more sensitive when it comes to drivers being hurt. No one wants to see that happen.
Anonymous said...
They follow the "Chase" drivers all night, but when the 48 spins, suddenly, there's no shot to show the ver beginning of the spin.
October 12, 2007 10:04 PM
I believe we saw that shot with the beginning of the spin LIVE. don't judge all the angles ESPN has just from 1 replay. they wont show you all the angles at one time.
Ok...I am not paying much attention NOW with so much on the track needing to be cleaned...
but has anybody noticed the commercial breaks have been shorter in duration than normal? That's an improvement. Kind of like SPEED during INC...I bet the break have only been 2 minutes long....not that I have a stop watch or timmer or anything.
:-)
Ouch...7th DNF for Biffle. Hope he does better tomorrow so he can enjoy the wedding week.
I think the point being made about ESPN's camera coverage is that they do a poor job of following all of the cars in a race. Earlier, while trying to watch the progress of Jimmie Johnson and Scott Wimmer, I had no idea how they were doing because they were rarely ever shown by the ESPN cameras. They use a lot of close-up angles and tend to follow certain cars with these close-up shots and fail to show the actual race. You are unable to follow the entire race and are forced to watch what they think you should see instead.
The reason they are catching these crashes is because they are happening at the front of the field or on a restart.
---JD, can you clarify what you don't want?
I can't speak for Mr. Daly, but for someone who has signed on tonight while watching the race and is wading through this thread, I would hope what he wants is for people to note their opinions and feelings about the coverage and move on. Not personal back and forth between posters that adds no real content. The first half of this thread was an example of good discussion, in my opinion.
This board is a breath of fresh air among NASCAR message boards because it is simply about the TV coverage, not other off topic things and personal attacks that people get in arguments about. Then people like Mr. Daly have to waste time moderating and the thoughtful posters (and there have been many here) leave. I want to keep this place around (thanks Mr. Daly), so I would love it everyone would play by his rules.
Risk vs reward? Espn acts like this is something new. The past three and a half years, a number of Cup drivers have run the Busch races during the chase section of the year. Come on, why does Espn feel the need to be Bill Webber?
Yet another useless comment by the same user trying to get everyone else to react to him and prompt Mr. Daly to shut down the comments board.
Mr. Daly, I hope you won't let one rotten apple spoil the bunch but if you can't block that one user I don't know how else you can't prevent this garbage.
Some of us are actually here to intelligently critique tonight's broadcast.
Wo!!!! I hope they got this track cleaned up after all the wrecks...i was almost expecting a red flag or something.
Andy was pretty funny about needing a sign in 4...been lots happening there since qualifying.
He is the best of this crew.
Did they show the new allstate kardbord Kasey Kane commercial everywhere. I may never be able to eat spagetti again
Excise me if I am wrong, but I do not think asking for clarification is useless. Please excuse the comment if it was. This site is a good place for discussing NASCAR TV and I don't want to ruin it.
Jimmie's track record at LMS in the Busch series is pretty dismal ... Brad could've looked at his stats ... instead of jumping to the conclusion that since Jimmie wins there in Cup races, that he'd do the same in Busch races ...
I was referring to Erik's "everyone here just wants to hear boogity boogity boogity" and "if these same guys were covering the same race on a different network you guys wouldn't complain comments". I'm sorry about the confusion.
Jeff Burton explaining risk vs reward. Don't you just love Senator Burton
stricklinfan82 said...
I was referring to Erik's "everyone here just wants to hear boogity boogity boogity" and "if these same guys were covering the same race on a different network you guys wouldn't complain comments". I'm sorry about the confusion.
Its a valid comment. There have been constaint complaints over things such as missed restarts, missed wrecks, etc. Watching this race, I just don't see that happening.
Regarding Rusty getting driver names wrong, I don't think he prepares well for the races. That is, unless the drivers are (a) in the top few positions in points and (b) a Cup driver running in the Busch race. He has no clue who some of the drivers are, especially in the Busch series.
Regarding his announcing skills in general, I thin he has to stop and think too much before the words can come out of his mouth, because (from what I have heard for years), his everyday lsanguage would make a sailor blush.
No offense to any sailors out there. ;)
I see this as a major problem with ESPN's coverage...they just showed isolated shots of Jeff Burton's car (including a half-screen interview) for a total of 3-4 laps after a restart without showing another car. While this was being shown, I had to follow the race and the cars changing positions on FoxSports Race Blog without any idea of how or where it happened.
On most other race coverage I have seen, they are able to show more of the race and what is happening without having to rely on replays after the fact.
And not to direct any comments to those who think race fans are simply ragging on ESPN...this type of thing is happening with several other sports (mostly TBS' coverage of MLB), so to simply blame any comments about the race coverage on a bias against ESPN is incorrect.
I do not think we have seen a missed restart. that's good progress.
I hope the rest of the race goes smoothly. Everytime I whoop over a wreck, the cat sleeping next to me gets a sudden wake up.
Interesting to hear turn 4 has been a problem for so long...and once again, Rusty mentions the hard tires...they are fine he says...but some other drivers mentions softer tires are needed.
Wow, Jeff is suddenly out there the lead horse!!!
I do feel for the Busch drivers though...tough situation for them. Amirola is in 4th (sp) and I hope he wins. :-)
I was bothered by the blast away in the lead in points Carl had (like Harvick did last year) but did not want to see him crash.
Still, I have mixed feelings about the big dogs in this series when they dominate it so much....but I understand the need to mix it up a little.
and shh...don't say anything but has ANYBODY heard the term "aero loose" tonight???
:-)
The website has rules. This site isn't for trying to provoke others and criticizing them for their opinions. Obviously Mr. Daly took offense to Erik's first post because he removed it shortly after it was posted. In my opinion Erik is personally attacking the other users in an attempt to get others to make off-topic responses to him and get Mr. Daly to shut down the site.
I think the problem of missed crashes has to do with the media's interest in following one thing at a time. It also happens in other sports but these things in broadcasting seem to come and go.
SophiaZ123 said...
and shh...don't say anything but has ANYBODY heard the term "aero loose" tonight???
:-)
October 12, 2007 10:22 PM
I have.
We have been doing this for a while now. It takes all kinds to make a world.
Please direct your comments to the TV program in-progress. This is not a chat board.
There are a wide variety of TV programs each race weekend, and more topics to discuss during the week.
If you would like to focus on a network, both espn.com and speedtv.com have chat and message boards for open debate.
This is a dangerous race on a difficult track at night with a tired announce crew. Let's focus on what they are doing, who they are featuring, and what production elements they are using on the Busch Series.
If anyone needs more clarification than that, please email me directly...thanks.
So far tonights broadcast seems pretty solid. Lets hope the same can be said tomorrow night. They really need to move Allen Bestwick to the pit studio for the cup races as well. Suzy is a nice girl, but not for NASCAR. Allen is staple of NASCAR TV.
Burns thinks there was a Busch race last week ... Several other ESPN guys have said the same thing ... They need to remember the difference between last week & the last race ...
Yes aero loose has been mentioned several times tonight. I personally have no problem with that being brought up on the air, because it's a legitimate point. I have never criticized Rusty for using that term. The only problem I have with that is "draft tracks" and more specifically "draft lock". I think Rusty gets unfairly linked to the draft tracks. People bash him for describing what is going on in draft tracks and using the ESPN term "draft lock" last week but it's not is fault. He's just working with what ESPN has given him.
To the savvy poster about the focus on one car or just a couple. AMEN.
I want to see more cars on my screen in a wide angle but not a GOOGLE EARTH SHOT! :-)
It's impossible to keep perspective with a split screen on just TWO CARS at the expense of the rest of the field.
Yes, it's good no missed restarts. But remember we ave seen a couple of good Busch races this year as they do not throw all the gizmos, graphics and even the kitchen sink at us!
:-)
I hope we can stay green and get some camera time for any Busch drivers in the top 10 of this race.
Oh and I agree MANY STATIONS are ruining sports for folks. NOT just ESPN. One guy says he hates baseball as they have too many 'fireworks'. I don't know what he means but I am guessing that's a FOX station. They started the graphics and swooshy sound effects craze.
I just wish others would not copycat it.
Imitation is sometimes imitation.
uh oh..>Reed in Steve Wallaces car...Calamity corner might be legit nikname. WOW HUGE piece on the track.
The axle flew off????
towards the end of this race espn is doing a good job of catching collisions in progress.
Solid coverage overall
For as big of a race weekend as this is billed, they really should've had more cameras around the track ... Since the Trucks are off, there should be more cameras & operators available ... This has been a problem at LMS the past few years ... Because there aren't enough cameras, we/they miss a lot of stuff ...
I have to agree with Sophiaz. Everyone seems to rag on Rusty. But the terms are most likely made up by ESPN and the Producers. Also lets keep in mind Rusty is very new to calling races. Hes made considerable progress compared to a few years ago when he called IRL Races.
Rusty does know cars, looked at the wheel and immediately knew what happen. Got to give him credit for that!
Anonymous said...
... Since the Trucks are off, there should be more cameras & operators available ...
October 12, 2007 10:34 PM
this is not always true.
Just once I would love to hear Rusty say what anyone would say if something they owned got damaged.....you can tell he is really ticked off...let it out brother we can handle it...that's real TV
I wasn't sure it's was appropriate to show a drivers wife and talk about him hitting the wall but they pulled it together with the video piece but did it belong during a race?
Is that Aric Almirola running 4th? Has he even been mentioned on TV tonight?
During long cautions, it gets tough filling the time without constantly repeating themselves.
To further the point I mentioned about ESPN focusing on Jeff Burton earlier (they do this way too often with several other drivers), they just showed a personal story with Burton while under yellow with 12 laps or less to go.
There are less than 12 laps remaining in the race, and instead of setting up the final green flag run with info on who is in what position, which cars have been moving up the field, etc...they show a personal story about Jeff Burton that has no business being shown at this stage of the race. It's a great story for Nascar Now, but I want to be excited to watch the finish of this race, since I've spent all night watching qualifying and the race, and instead I'm turning away from the TV, reading the race leaderboard online, and posting a comment about the coverage here.
stricklinfan82 said...
Is that Aric Almirola running 4th? Has he even been mentioned on TV tonight?
October 12, 2007 10:40 PM
yes he has.
Aric has been running well but YES they have NOT mentioned him...I saw his pic as they went to commercial and that's how I caught where he is...up to three!
WOW! Jeff is blowing away.
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