Sunday, October 28, 2007

Notes: Weekend Posting

1 - Thank you for commenting over the last three days on the NASCAR TV activity. There will be a full week of columns beginning Sunday night about the issues involving all three racing series and the TV coverage of them by ESPN and SPEED.

2 - The dates of the postings did not match-up over the weekend as I was traveling and monitoring the site from the road. The dates will be correct starting Sunday evening. There are some things that even Google is not great at doing quite yet.

3 - We are talking about whether or not to continue the posting of comments as events are in-progress. This original forum has changed into two groups who are "taking sides" and "making statements" about the two TV networks currently involved in producing NASCAR TV programs and events. That was not the point of allowing these comments, and we will decide this week if they will continue.

4 - Jayski has been a friend to this site since it began in February, and there is absolutely no conflict between The Daly Planet and Jayski in any way. We stay in regular email contact, and he posts the stories that I forward to him in a timely fashion once he has decided they fit the criteria for his site. If you have a question or comment about Jayski, direct it to me by email at please.

5 - This is crunch time for the TV networks. This past weekend was the result of nine months of preparation and practice by both the ESPN on ABC and the SPEED Network production teams. While ESPN used the Busch Series as "practice" for the NEXTEL Cup telecasts, SPEED has been producing the Truck Series and their weekly programs all season long. Over the next several weeks, we will be talking specifically about which of these programs and networks is currently serving the NASCAR fans, and what issues remain to be solved.

Please feel free to add your comments to any of the issues above. Thanks again.


Anonymous said...

Not sure what kind of posts you're expecting for the "in progress" entries, John. If you don't want the ones we're making now, all I can figure is, you want comments on the race action itself?

Otherwise, isn't commentary about the quality of ESPN's coverage what you wanted?

Anonymous said...

JD, I think you should reconsider closing the "in-progress" section. I realize "tacking sides" is not what this is meant for. Everyone should be critiquing the broadcast at hand and nothing else.

Anonymous said...

John. I see that the comments may have been getting out of hand. Here is a suggestion. Trying opening up a Chatroom for live event posting. I know there are some very good chatroom hosting providers out there. Once the event is over, you can publish you blog and then people can post their comments about the broadcast overall.

If you think about it we have sorta like a chatroom going on now. But with a real chatroom people wont have to refresh the page, and you wouldnt have to delete comments. Also chatrooms have the option of flushing out certain words or you could even have moderators.

Just a suggestion. Keep up the good work.

Sophia said...

Chat rooms?? Only tried those a couple of times with medical people giving talks..all the words jumbled together and everybody using different colored fonts is horrible.

A free message board from hostingboard is much easier. you can post in live time there w/o scrolling so much. when post something it usually automatically refreshes the page.

I know how to moderate one of these and with add blocker, NO ADDs to gunk up things. Let me know if you want to go that route until you get a stand alone site. Easy to delete inappropriate posts and I would be happy to volunteer to help with that that under your rules.

I thought more problems were with people getting a little snarky and personal.

I am confused as I thought the critique was ABOUT ESPN...and or SPEED if we are watching those stations?



Anonymous said...

SophiaZ123 said...
I am confused as I thought the critique was ABOUT ESPN...and or SPEED if we are watching those stations?



October 28, 2007 9:12 PM

I think what JD is saying is that we are just making statements about the companies involved and taking sides. when we should just be critiquing the broadcast at hand. nothing else.

Anonymous said...

JOHN, I do believe the In-progress comment pages allow viewers to express opinions as they are fresh, rather than blurred by later TV action or what they read or hear from others. I believe it aloows for more unvarnished critiquing of race and other NASCAR coverage - but granted the comments have become skewed by dissatisfaction with TNT and now ESPN. In any event, I KNOW there are a great many of us fans who REALLY appreciate all your efforts, which give some of us hope that NASCAR coverage might even come up to scratch. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

I agree. this is the best way to get fan reaction while it is fresh.

Sophia said...

Also if we MISS something on the tv about the race, somebody can usually clear it up with another source they are listening to, or give us a conk on the head if ESPN DID tell us something but we, the kvetching poster missed it while doing something else or getting a snack.


I am also grateful to this place!! Beats the heck out of the SPEED forums that used to be better monitored.

some very nice, savvy folks here even if we do not like all the same drivers.

This place has some VERY informed posters.

Anonymous said...

JD, I have a technical question. Dave Despain was interviewing someone that used foul language during the interview. it was bleeped out. how is this possible when I thought this show was live? do they implement a delay?

Daly Planet Editor said...

Any network has the opportunity to install a "short delay" at either the studio control room or the network's Master Control facility to deal with profanity on-the-air.

This is the normal way of dealing with live shows of almost any type that deal with interviewing the public. When a show is delayed by one a couple of seconds, it is still referred to as "live" on-the-air and in the TV listings.

We do not review WindTunnel on this site because it is not NASCAR themed, but this question applies to other TV and radio shows about NASCAR, so that is your answer.

ps-this technique is also used at races by TV networks.

Vince said...

I could tell you weren't directly monitoring the comments this weekend, JD. Some of the other Nascar related chatroom/message board trolls have invaded your turf. Which is ok if they'll obey the rules you have posted on the right side of your web page. There were a lot of comments this weekend about various drivers or situations on the track. The comments were supposed to be about the tv coverage. Here's a direct quote from JD on todays page:

"This page will host your comments about the telecast on ABC. Please restrict your comments to TV-related issues, and read the rules on the right hand side of the main page before posting."

There was a lot of other stuff going on with the comments today, which is why I chose not to comment until the very end. Sophia called the comments "snarky", I think. But in any case, she's right. They were not "on topic" and were getting personal. People who post on here should keep their posts to JD's stated topic or go post else where. IMO

Anonymous said...

Daly Planet Editor said...
ps-this technique is also used at races by TV networks.
October 28, 2007 10:27 PM

Has ABC decided to add this delay system after the Tony Stewart incident at Indy?

Also, will the weekly Q & A column return?

Thank You for the site.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure the in progress thing is working ..I think post race broadcast is the way to go...just as an aside..someone tell ESPN/ABC that the Yates-Newman-Haas-Lanigan never made it down the when they put up info on 88 and 38 check it before they broadcast it...

Labbie said...

@Nascar and the Canadian Curmudgeon:

I saw that too and wondered if I had missed something.

Should have known better. LOL

Daly Planet Editor said...

Hey Folks,

The Q&A will open Tuesday 8PM for questions, and will get answers all day Wednesday. I will post a note about that shortly.

Since new electronics make it so simple, any network can choose to use a delay box at anytime. Each network can decide based on the event, and the athletes. Many are trained to do interviews professionally, while other sports like NASCAR have an emotional dynamic that has almost always involved a bit of rough speech.

It is most important on broadcast network telecasts, because cable races and shows do not come under the control of the FCC since they are beamed directly to a satellite and then into your home via cable or home dish.

So, the big FCC scrutiny and fines come on ABC, but not for SPEED or ESPN2.


Anonymous said...

I think the "in-progress" comments are a blast to follow during the race. Following other fans' reactions to stupid stuff (and good stuff, too) just makes the race experience more fun.

Karen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Crockett said...
"I think the "in-progress" comments are a blast to follow during the race. Following other fans' reactions to stupid stuff (and good stuff, too) just makes the race experience more fun."

I have been reading Mr. Daly's entries on this site since late February or so. (It's worth reading the archives if you have time - maybe in the off season!) But back then the columns either had no option to comment (or in some cases because the site was new, no one commented). He graciously opened the comments at some point, I assume due to requests.

Like Crockett, the past couple of months I've really enjoyed checking the race/qualifying comments in real time and also posting once or twice most weeks. Or shall I'll say, I enjoyed it at first. Over the past several weeks, it has degenerated, not only into posts that are unnecessary, but with some posters dismissing other's opinions instead of simply posting their own.

Thus we get remarks with the tone of "Are you crazy?" or "There's always one stupid one in the bunch" or the dreaded "You must work for ESPN" which lately some anonymous posters - not just "erik" - have had to defend themselves from.

It's one thing to respond to a comment with additional information that might answer a question or correct/clarify a statement in a post. It's another to respond to a comment snidely. (Believe it or not, this hasn't happened to me yet, but I keep seeing it the past month or so and it bothers me for the other posters who are trying to stick to the original intent of the site.)

The real issue? As much as some of the posters with handles (user names) might like to deny it, some are just as guilty - if not more- of being "snarky" and dismissive of other's comments as the anonymous posters who are also guilty of this. Some posters are also being unnecessarily negative about the coverage, in unnecessarily crude - almost hysterical- terms. It just becomes white noise after a while and I would imagine that the TV people who are trying to read the comments to hear feedback may just give up.

Yes, we are unhappy with the coverage and Mr. Daly's outlet has likely gone a long way in helping to change that. But no need to be vicious about what you don't like.

And yes, there have been a few spammers, but those have only shown up in the past couple of weeks and I do not think they are a major problem. I think some (and I emphasize some, not all) posters who think they are loyal regulars -named or anonymous- need to "check themselves" (I can use cliche slang, I'm 22!) and realize they are actually contributing to the problem. They are not the gatekeepers they believe themselves to be.

I will respect either decision by Mr. Daly. I would be willing to post my thoughts at the end (or towards the end of a race) in a setting like this.

But I would not participate in a chat/message board not connected to this site. If Mr. Daly chooses a moderator later at his planned website, I would be willing to give that person a chance and hopefully he vets him/her carefully. But I like the style of the site as is.

Okay, back to studying - this place is one of my favorite procrastination sites. :-) Sorry for the length and thank you for thinking up this place. However long it lasts and it whatever style, I enjoy it.

Anonymous said...

Ok, I'm not done procrastinating. :-) One other thing I'd like to add. I believe that a couple of posters with user names have recently taken to using the anonymous option if they have something particularly harsh to say to other posters. Only a couple, though.

After you've been reading the Daly Planet for a entire long NASCAR season, you recognize certain writing styles, whether they use a user name or not. :-)

Illpolo said...

My two cents -- I love being able to verify my opinions, both good or bad concerning the coverage, as the race/qualifying/show is in progress. In some cases when I am not around or at home for a race, I will go back and read through all of the comments after the fact to see what the positives and negatives were from the coverage.

I think it also enhances the race experience for me. MRN, TV on mute, FoxTrax loaded up, and constant reloading of The Daly Planet to see what others think of the coverage has become a normal routine for me.

I also believe that anyone "important" who reads the site is going to spend the time reading JD's articles and the 40-50 lengthy and detailed posts that follow, not so much the in-race commentary that can sometimes range from 200-300 very short comments from anyone with a keyboard and an Internet connection.

Anyways, this site is a great place to vent and hopefully help improve the overall race coverage. Thanks JD.

LuckyForward said...

I have read, but not participated in the "in progress" entries specifically because of the comment Mr. Daly made about persons taking sides. The purpose of this site, as least as I interpret it, is to comment on coverage, not take "shots" at other persons or discuss the merits or lack of such of ESPN.

Mr. Daly, whatever decision you make will be fine with me.

Anonymous said...

It's just my humble opinion, but I think the tone of the "in progress" comments has degenerated.

I have been critical of some of the broadcast issues in my comments, but my criticism is not motivated by ill will toward anyone. I just would like to see NASCAR covered properly. Therefore, my comments have tried to point out correctable problems. There is nothing to be gained by name calling.

I have some experience with live radio coverage of racing (not NASCAR) and know that unplanned events can quickly alter the carefully planned schedule. Therefore, I may be predisposed to be more sympathetic to little goofs. But some of the comments here have turned into a flame war, and that dilutes the effectiveness of the constructive criticism.

Anonymous said...

I suspect the "flame war" has erupted because fans are tired of posting the same complaints over and over and seeing no improvement from ESPN.

Frustration has set in.

Anonymous said...

I enjoy being able to pop in and out during NASCAR coverage. I enjoy reading others' comments and posting a few myself.

Until this feature started, I was not on the internet during racing activities on TV.

I do apologize for any slippage on following the rules.

Haus14 said...

I had the Daly Planet up and was reading the in-race comments, but as other have noted, the comments have digressed. I did not post yesterday because there was nothing new to post. The same observations have been made for weeks now.

We need to get past the minutia of the race broadcast and comment on the real broadcast problems.

Maybe one option as far as trying to improve comments would be to require everyone to have a "anonymous" allowed.

If you think what you have to add is that important, then take the time to register yourself on the site.

Anonymous said...

I'd imagine if someone went back through the site comments and compared name-calling/nontopical posts from registered/handle users to those type of posts from anonymous posters, the numbers would be about equal. I'd also imagine that's the case with "posts removed by blog administrator" - an equal amount removed from registered users and anonymous users.

So the "anonymous posters are troublemakers" argument doesn't really hold water with me. If you're posting on topic, it shouldn't matter who you are.

Anonymous said...

haus20 said:
--If you think what you have to add is that important, then take the time to register yourself on the site.

Some of us are signed up at a zillion different Internet boards/sites already, many which we never visit anymore. It is a blessed relief to simply be able to come here, post a relevant and polite comment on a day when a column interests you, and move along.

We won't even get into message board posters who go back and look up your previous comments 'history' and try to use them against you in a discussion. Not saying that happens here, just saying it happens. Anonymous is good for some and I appreciate the choice.

Sophia said...

Sometimes Anon is the only choice. I have found when trying the word veri under the Sophia, it asks a couple of times.

THEN if I have to edit, it asks AGAIN, so sometimes I just say skip it and type SOPHIA at the top or bottom of the anon.

I never thought of folks slipping in and out of anon on PURPOSE but it could be.

I use two computers and one NEVER remembers me here and the other one does sometimes.

Also, if you enlarge the text several times using Mozilla, the words jumble over each other at the top of the page AND the bottom...edit and publish are overlapped, and if you hit the wrong button..sigh,
another WORD veri thing or the lady from Mars speaking in a spooky voice to tell you what to type (if anybody learns the TRICK to THAT feature, let me know :-)

I know it's important to have that so JD doesn't get hit with 200 spammers.

But I think that's a reason you may see some folks going in and out of user names...different computers do not know us and such.

I find most of the regulars seem free enough to give honest opinion about the COVERAGE..

Also whoever mentioned we have gotten harsher about the coverage due to FRUSTRATION?!

AMEN ...I am not a social malcontent in my real human face to face life ! :-)

though I admit some of the weekend comments seemed directed repeatedly at other posters...and though I did not see the tribute am still saddened at the cruel remarks made of Rusty's emotional reaction. :( I missed both while watching RACEDAY

But this ESPN has been taxing on a sport I look forward to a couple days a week.

NOT to mention the fact we hardcore fans feel gypped over lack of quals or 'talking over the qualifying'.

I too apologize for any running over the rules.

Like I have said before, if not for this place to

Anonymous said...

I too have noticed comments becoming more strident as the ESPN - NASCAR Cup season has progressed, but I believe a good deal of it is out of frustration with ESPN's continued lack of expected quality. However, I thought this past weekend's comments were somewhat less strident than they had become recently.

Haus14 said...

I also have used the anon tag becuase of the trouble with logging in sometimes...however, I found that it was because I was logging in improperly. I still stand by my previous post.

to anon @ 12:13...who thinks that the post problems are equal between registered names and "anonymos"...I can think of one named poster, but a whole bunch of the "anons".

to anon @ may very well be a wonderful "anonymous" blogger, unfortunately some ruin it for we may lose an opportunity to have in race comments because of riduculous name calling which in my opinion, comes from "anonymous" posts. As far as people looking up previous posts and "using" it against you...WHO CARES? Don't you belive what you post? This is NASCAR. You are not running for president or testifying in a federal court case.

Labbie said...

I agree that the Anonymous tag should be removed. A person can always just click on the "Other" option and put in a name, which I did before I realized that my Google account could be used too.

But I also don't see what is wrong with making someone register at either Google or as a Blogger.

I'm sure I have done my share of off topic posts, although I try to remain on topic. I would hate to see the in-race comments disappear.

Newracefan said...

I enjoy reading and posting my comments and I do try not to react (sometimes it is difficult) to another poster's comments, I will answer someone's question about the race if I actually know the answer. I agree that some posters are getting "snarky" to quote Sophia and I am not sure how to stop that except by not reacting and perhaps they will get bored and go away. JD is there a way to block out specific people (I'm guessing not). I vote to keep the blod, I watch the races alone (my son thinks I'm crazy) and posting and seeing others just as frustrated as I am about the coverage keeps me from exploding. I would be afraid the dynamic (most of us are trying to obey the rules) would shift even more snarky in a chat room.

Anonymous said...

I've read all these comments and keep seeing words and sentiments like "vent" and "let out frustration". I could be wrong, but I don't think that's what the in-race comments are for. They are for critiquing the program listed in the column title.

If people can remember that, then in-race comments should be kept. If not, I won't be sorry to see them go.

For those of you who are used to traditional message boards, like the anything goes in-race thread at or on driver fan boards? I don't think the intention is that the comments are to be anything like that. And that applies to 'regulars' (how are y'all making that distinction, anyway?) and other commenters.

Anonymous said...

Rick said...
"But I also don't see what is wrong with making someone register at either Google or as a Blogger."

Some people just aren't going to do that, for a variety of reasons. So why make them?

I went through JD's great ESPN on Back Burner blog and counted the comments. I only did this once, so I might be off count by one or two.

Out of 134 comments, 55 - more than a third - were made by Anonymous viewers. Two of those were removed by JD. 31 comments were made by viewers who clicked on other and created a temporary name.

86 of 134. If the majority of the posters are not registered and are forced to do so, then watch the tenor of this site change dramatically. I believe it will be for the worse because the variety of opinions will be limited. Google is a huge information collecting machine and in the days of increased violations of privacy, not everyone wants to be registered with them or their affiliates.

Anonymous said...

Anon@8:26 wrote: 86 of 134. If the majority of the posters are not registered and are forced to do so, then watch the tenor of this site change dramatically.

My two cents: I've been visiting the site for a long time and it's my impression that a VERY large percentage of the Google/Blogger registered users, excepting Sophia and maybe a couple others, are men. I can't know that for sure, but that's my impression based on the names on those links. That in itself could skew the feedback here if only registered users are posting.

But I agree the people posting during the race need to be more civil to one another, otherwise cut that option off. I also agree that everybody is at fault, not just anonymous posters -as I said, I've become familiar with some registered names on the site. We shouldn't be insulting other posters - what's the point?

Daly Planet Editor said...

OK folks, the verdict is in. We keep the in-progress comments for the rest of the season.

They will, however, be monitored and the ones not dealing with the TV aspects of the races and shows will be deleted.



Sophia said...

Thanks, JD !!!!


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