NASCAR fans are certainly familiar with the logistical challenges that ESPN faced last season. The network struggled to present Saturday NASCAR practices, qualifying and races up against live college football games.
Saturday night, the Fox Sports executives found themselves in the same type of position. Major League Baseball on Fox was in a rain delay and threatened to run long into the scheduled NASCAR race from Phoenix. During the NASCAR pre-race show the tarp came off at Fenway, and Fox switched to the live baseball game between the Boston Red Sox and the NY Yankees.
Give credit to the Fox TV crews at the NASCAR race and in Boston. Ultimately, it was made clear to both baseball and racing fans that the Fox executives had made a decision. Baseball would continue on the Fox Broadcast Network right up until the lap before the green flag in Phoenix.
Since baseball can go very long, it would then be switched to the FX cable network. In fact, viewers checking FX found that the game was already being simulcast. Things were explained well, and everyone knew that Fox was trying to make the best of a tough situation.
Unfortunately, live sports has a way of humbling even the best made plans. Literally, there was a full count in the ninth inning with two out as the NASCAR flagman told the forty-three cars there was one lap to green.
As we all know, the outcome was the worst scenario for both sports. The network switched over to NASCAR, but missed the start of the race. Fox's own Larry McReynolds was the celebrity who waved the green flag that was not seen. Viewers saw that on replay. For the first time in a long time, there was no "Boogity" on Fox.
Baseball fans who did not switch over to FX also got shortchanged. Moments after the switch to NASCAR, the long baseball game was over. Fox has missed the moment they came back on-the-air to capture. At least the FX coverage was solid and even contained a post-game segment.
As the race panned-out, it was clear that Fox had decided to reduce the "Digger" camera use. This tool was used effectively on replays and worked well as a bumper into commercial break under caution. The Director resisted "cutting" this camera into regular laps and focused on the racing action.
The race was a typical Phoenix TV scramble that several times forced the TV crew to use replays to sort-out the on-track action. Fox is very good as serving up the exact replays in a timely fashion and did so again in this event.
Triple video boxes and double video boxes worked well to show either live racing or replays. Fox has become good at this element, but the four video boxes during pit stops still costs the viewer a good perspective of the race off pit road. In this category, ESPN has it covered on their Nationwide Series coverage.
Fox has struggled to figure out how to approach the finish of the race. This Saturday in Phoenix, the network followed the regular format they have used for several seasons. The winner was shown, his pit crew was shown and the remainder of the field was ignored.
None of the stories that both the booth and pit road announcers were following were paid-off. Fox has determined that this is their format and it will continue. As winner Jimmie Johnson did his burnout and took his victory lap, it was clear that he was not about to run out of fuel. The "other" story of the race was going to be how the teams that stopped for fuel finished the race. None of them were seen.
After a tough start and a good race it was hard not to see the drivers who were up-front all-day finish. Mark Martin and Dale Earnhardt Jr. were two good examples. Their interviews after the race showed how hard they worked and how much of themselves they had left on the racetrack. The Sprint Cup Series has a weekend off and then moves on to Talladega as the NASCAR on Fox coverage continues.
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97 comments:
JD, I disagree. I think It would have been impossible to show more than 2 cars cross the line and there was so much time between the winning car and following cars. A shot on the line for that long would have taken for ever in TV time.
SophiaZ123, You should ask for more details before you rant. They were telling fans to switch over to FX for about 10 minutes before the move. I assumed everyone who wanted to see it, went to see it on FX already. Trust me, fans had ample time to change the channel.
"I assumed everyone who wanted to see it, went to see it on FX already. "
I should clarify:
they assumed everyone who wanted to see the baseball game, went to see it on FX already by the time the preformed the switch. fans had ample time and warning. which is why FOX will not make too big of a deal with this.
For the benefit of those of you that don't want to go back and read 400+ in-race comments after the fact, here is my take on the situation with the baseball / NASCAR conflict:
I am a very very very passionate, hardcore, diehard NASCAR fan. I do watch other sports but don't particularly care to watch baseball.
Having said that, I think the right decision would have been to stick with the conclusion of the Yankees-Red Sox game on Fox (no matter how long it lasted) and air the start of the Cup race on FX until the baseball game ended.
As a NASCAR fan I was selfishly flattered that NASCAR was chosen as priority #1 on this day but that doesn't mean it was the right decision to make. In my opinion the end of a sporting event that has already been on a channel for several hours should always be treated as being more important than the start of another event waiting to begin on that same channel.
I am also a hockey fan, and last year NBC dumped an Eastern Conference Finals game in overtime to switch to a 90 minute horse racing pre-race show. I wasn't home on that day so I didn't have access to the cable network the overtime session got moved to.
I screamed from the highest mountain top on that day that NBC made the wrong decision, and as such must be consistent and apply the same standard to today's occurence.
Baseball fans that watched that game for 2-3 hours and sat through another hour or two of rain delay deserved better than to have their broadcast cut short 1 out before its conclusion. The start of the NASCAR race should have been on FX, waiting for baseball to end to move to Fox.
Yes it would have sucked for NASCAR fans without FX to miss the first part of the race, but even if I (perhaps the most ridiculously hardcore NASCAR fan there is) was in that position I would have understood the bigger picture and accepted the fact that the right decision was made, even though MY sport would have been the one that wasn't showing up on my TV screen.
Had the shoe been on the other foot and my NASCAR race got cut off in the final laps for the start of a baseball game, I would have been IRATE. So for consistency's sake I have to apply the same standard and feel sorry for the baseball fans that I feel got the raw end of the deal today.
Having said ALL THAT, once the decision was made that Fox would switch to Phoenix for the start of the race no matter what, they should have followed through with that decision.
Once they told baseball fans to switch to FX and NASCAR fans to wait a moment for the start to appear live on Fox, they absolutely had to pull the plug and make the switch in time for the green flag, no matter what was going on in baseball. Waiting for one extra pitch that "might have" ended the game, but didn't, should have NEVER happened. Doing that screwed the NASCAR fans because we now missed the start thanks to Fox holding on for one pitch too many. If NASCAR fans were not given an outlet to see the start and were instead promised seeing the start live on Fox no matter what, there should have been a drop-dead time in place to ensure us of the start, regardless of how close the game was to ending. They had their cable outlet for the end of the baseball game. NASCAR fans had no cable outlet for the start of the race.
Making a definitive decision would necessarily screw one group of fans or the other, there was no way around hurting someone's feelings. Waffling as they did ended up screwing both fan groups and just made a bad situation even worse.
Next time I think Fox would be better served sticking with the first event until the bitter end and giving fans of the sporting event waiting to begin the FX outlet as a backup station until the first event concludes.
I don't care if the schedule order is baseball-NASCAR, NASCAR-baseball, baseball-football, football-baseball, NASCAR-football, football-NASCAR, or anything else you can come up with. No matter what the circumstance the first event should be aired through its conclusion and the second event should be moved to cable until the first event ends.
Fox screwed up ... News Corp has been screwing up since Feb (& not just on the mothership, but also on FNC) ...
The game was rain delayed ... Fans who would normally watch it, would've changed channels and NOT gone back ... They ate up their alloted time ...
It was a complete disservice to NASCAR fans ... Fox should've moved the baseball to FX ...
It was completely IDIOTIC that the baseball game was on both FOX and FX at the same freakin' time ... There was absolutely NO need to show the game on two channels simultaneously ...
For all of the money that News Corp and Disney have paid to cover the races ... Their horrific coverage is just not cutting the mustard ... NASCAR is constantly getting the bum's rush because the other sports run over their alloted times ...
IF News Corp cared at all about the fans, they should've dumped the baseball to FX and shown the pre-race ceremonies as well as the drop of the green flag LIVE ...
John Henry is now hated as much as Brian France ...
David Hill needs to be fired ...
I knew this race would suck when I saw they had hired a CANADIAN band (Emerson Drive) to sing the National Anthem of the United States of America ...
Fox did handle the situation very poorly. I think we can all agree that Fox was between the proverbial rock and a hard place with this situation. I agree with stricklanfan about staying with the first item. But once they said they were going to let us see the start of the race on fox they should have let us see it. I think Fox should have tape delayed the start of the race. The length of the delay would have been maybe 5 minutes and then after the first commercial break they could have said we now join live race coverage. OR they should have done the split screen so we could have atleast seen the start. Did anyone else notice that during the first set of pit stops they were talking about Jeff Gordon but they zoomed in on a smoldering remains of a tire on the track.
Just a final point I want to add to my above post, I wish fans could post with out so much disrespect.
Fox needs to start drug testing their program directors.
One thing that might just help during the rebroadcast Thursday on Speed will probably be that they will work with NASCAR Media Group to air the international broadcast's invocation and national anthem, plus pre-race notes.
Because the international broadcast is not affected by Fox's MLB coverage, and is taken from the main broadcast except under extenuating circumstances, they can show the opening and grid from that broacast.
Pretty ugly. Probably for the very first time, I was as interested in the finish of an event as I was for the start of the race (Go BoSox). Having said that, Strick brings up some great points. When FOX dumped out of the game, it was the worst time possible. I knew it was gonna be close. Since the FX thing was set up, and they had commited to showing the start of the race, they should have moved it sooner, because the transition was very awkward. Certainly not a good situation that anyone could control, but I think it could have been handled smoother.
I realize the distance between the winner and others was large, but that should not change the essence of a finish, which in general should include (at least) the top 10 crossing the line.
On a positive note, I saw the gopher cam get nailed by a burning Ryan Newman.
Tom
Inverness. FL
A simple split screen would have been more than sufficient to let the baseball fans see the finish of their game, and allow the Nascar fans to see the drop of the green flag. Is that so difficult to figure out? Apparently.
I didn't miss the boogity, I always hit the mute button so I don't have to hear that bit of inanity, but what FOX did was in excusable, I usually skip the pre-race because and I can't stomach Chris Meyers shenanigans why couldn't they have shown the race on FX or Speed until the stick and ball stuff was over? It was a tough situation for them I know but FOX totally screwed it up all the way around.
As I looked back at some our posts, I did notice that we were hoping that we would get the race on another channel. Well son of a gun. Baseball was moved and we got our race. Yes, FOX missed the green flag(thank GOD for Hotpass). Like I said earlier, appreciate the effort. Too bad it worked out as it did. Some of these posts would have worked. I wish I understood how it all happened the way it did. Especially when there is a contingency plan in place.
Lou
Kingston,NY
John, didn't a similar situation happen to NBC when they were broadcasting the fall Charlotte race a few years back? That time, I think it was a Notre Dame college football game that ran over, and didn't NBC cut to the race just as the green flag waved. If I recall, and please don't attack me if I'm mistaken, but didn't the network brass actually go to the NASCAR officials and ask, or rather beg, them to delay the start of the race for just a few minutes? This stuff happens! Lord knows we're used to it here in Canada when TSN has a CFL game on, and they're supposed to go to a race right after the game. It happens the other way too. The only difference, is that it it's to go to a race from a football game, TSN does the usual wrap-up once the game is over. If it's the other way around, we get to see the winning car cross the finish line, and within 10 seconds, TSN cuts away to the other event.
I posted this on the 430+ post column but didn't know this thread was here. Pls excuse the repost but it is relevant:
OK, lets review. We didn't get the start we wanted and we didn't get the finish some of us wanted. That's not a good batting average. In between the race was fine although they still seem to miss too many restarts coming out of commercial.
The baseball game decision was unfortunate for everyone involved. While I know FOX thinks NYY/BOS games have national interest, it's not that big. It's early in the MLB season and this was game #12 for both teams, out of a 162 game season. It's just not that important to see every pitch, especially of a rain delayed game. Most of the NYY and BOS fans tuned out long ago to watch the Masters, have dinner or go to a movie. There is no sense in maintaining LIVE national TV coverage of a game which most of the viewers have been lost. FOX mgmt needs to look at a clock and think, what are east coast Yankee and Red Sox fans doing at almost 9PM? It ain't watchin baseball, that's for sure.
By comparison FOX has a national live TV audience for a regularly scheduled NASCAR race that is starting ON TIME. There are no rain delays in Phoenix. While this race is also early in the season, the shorter NASCAR season means every race is critical, more critical than early MLB games. At 9PM EST, NASCAR fans nationwide are tuned in and ready to watch the event. As mentioned, at 9PM EST, Yankee fans are doing something else besides watching FOX. Which viewer base do you want to cater to?
Good thing this happened early in both seasons. The people that made the judgement errors will get their butts chewed out and will (hopefully) learn their lesson. Now, if this scenario pops up in, say, September, where NYY and BOS are fighting for the playoffs and NASCAR is in the middle of The Chase for The Cup, well, I'd sure hope they remember this weekend and make the right decision. Move one of the events to FX, insert a crawl on both FOX and FX, and switch back to normal broadcasting ASAP. That's what should have happened last night. FOX could have kept a couple thousand NYY and BOS fans happy and not upset the bulk of NASCAR fans in the process.
"" As mentioned, at 9PM EST, Yankee fans are doing something else besides watching FOX. Which viewer base do you want to cater to?""
I think the point is FOX was catering to their CONTRACT w/ MLB not any teams fan base.
As others have said, a simple split screen would have been the best solution for the problem. Race fans could have seen the start of the race and baseball fans could have seen the end of the game. The audio could have been for either one or neither because the pictures were self explanatory.
Anon 1:06AM,
The way to handle that is to show Jimmie's team and car until the second place car comes around turn 4. Just like a road race, go back and pay-off the stories your pit reporters and booth announcers have been talking about and you as a viewer have been following for the past twenty laps.
JD
Whoever was running Fox last night should be fired and a public apology made to all NASCAR fans and to all baseball fans.
This was handled miserably with the decision being made on a reactive basis rather than a proactive basis.
They had a couple hours of rain delay to figure this out.
Sheesh.......
Anon 3:15AM,
Please come back and re-post without the kill reference and remember everybody has the right to an opinion. Please state yours and let it be discussed, your points were very valid.
JD
When was the last time a race was simulcast on two different networks? It was just a few short years ago, and as recently as last year, that they would move the broadcast to another network so they could show what was originally scheduled.
How many NASCAR fans were rooting for the Red Sox?
Yes, they gave ample time and fair warning, but move one or the other, or as an earlier post said, continue the originally scheduled program on Fox, then have the viewers tune to FX for the race.
Plus not one, but TWO missed restarts, the "Digger" cam has ran it's course, and the continuing saga of having only two or three cars shown at the finish has started to grate on my nerves. But what do I know?
I guess I should be glad that Fox is broadcasting the races now, because in a few short months, the worst tragedy ever is about to unfold. And that tragedys' name is ESPN.......
Please keep in mind that hindsight is 20/20. Things were pretty well organized, explained to viewers and ready to go until the end.
The bottom line is that baseball viewers had plenty of time to go to FX and see the end of the game with no problems.
It might have been a good idea to use a split screen for a transition or simply tell them we are going to NASCAR and catch the green flag.
As you may know, with radio and Hot Pass and international feeds, the race start itself is not going to be delayed because domestic TV cannot get itself organized.
At least viewers now know, despite Fox comments earlier, that FX can be used as a sports overflow channel for the big broadcast network.
Unlike ESPN, Fox does not do this a lot and they have no cable sports channel. You could not put baseball on SPEED. This move to FX establishes a groundwork for problems in the future and a way to solve them.
JD
The fact that is lost on here is that the baseball fans had ample time to make the switch from FOX to FX. It was on BOTH channels. So race fans were shut out for a double shot of one game. I agree that the baseball fans needed to be able to see the game to the completion of it, but when it was put on TWO channels and race fans were forced to miss the waving of the green flag and the entire first lap, that is unacceptable. Race fans once again are not a concern. Stick and ball sports rule the day.
~Sharon~
anon 315 am
yes, please repost your comments. I do agree w/you. Yes, we know it did not work out. And JD is correct they are valid points. You just said it better than I did, Thanks.
Lou
Kingston,NY
I understand why people are upset, but its ridiculous how whiny it can get. So they tried to finish the game before the race started.... If it wasn't for the last batter fouling off several pitches, it would have ended sooner and before the race, thus, no complaining. When you have the expectation that the game will end on the next pitch, why not stay with it?
Once they realized they wouldn't be able to finish the game first, they switched over. Sure it was a little abrupt, but it's the same thing most of us would have done with our TV remotes when we realized the race would be starting. And boo hoo, we missed one half of one lap, when most cars were still relatively close to their on-track starting position.
So to summarize, we almost got the whole game and once FOX realized it wouldn't end, we switched over to nascar. If it's keeping you up late at night wondering what you missed on turn 1 of lap 1, then you have room to complain.
Just a little different perspective.
I was in a race restaurant in Council Bluffs, IA because of business, over 70 miles from my own TV.
Of course, with all the ambient noise in the restaurant we couldn't hear the audio, and there were many, many boos at the TV. These gathered families were RACE fans.
We all were watching the clock for the estimated 8:53 start and were upset when it didn't change over, then flash its on and the cars are in turn 3.
We didn't know that the game was being switched, we didn't know why the race didn't start on TV. We also were getting antsy that our service was a little slow.
When the race came on there was a huge cheer. We all settled into our assorted food and beverages and watched.
As one fan said, at least we got to see the 48 finish. Where was Bowyer, Martin and Little E?
Audio is great, but TV is a picture medium. Maybe a crawl before the race would have helped prepare us?
But blowing the start? Not good.
Blowing the finish. Bad decision and FOX you read this stuff, so correct it.
It should read 700 miles from my own TV.
JD
If I may, as a guy who has spent his career in sports network control rooms making the very decision that FOX faced on Saturday, I agree that hindsight is 20/20. However, from the time it started raining in Boston, FOX had approximately 2 hours to get their plan together on "what if" scenarios. I doubt that the FOX/MLB contract stipulates mandatory "coverage to conclusion" language for regular season games that are delayed by rain. So, FOX should have started planning program transition to another channel-which meant they eithrt commit to the baseball on FOX and start the NASCAR race on SPEED and/or FX, or they commit to NASCAR on time and commit baseball to FX. Either way, you have to commit and make the switch with enough time to establish the satert of the half inning on the baseball channel and the start of the race on the NASCAR channel. FOX tried to have it both ways and got burned-and burned badly!
What's been left unsaid, and in my opinion represents the largest risk that FOX took, is the possibility that the Yankees could have tied the baseball game and sent it to the bottom of the 9th or worse, extra innings. Had that happened, then they'd have had a FOX broadcast audience who are now invested in a tie game and then must hope to continue to watch only if they get FX, or continue with the tied game and try to scramble the NASCAR audience to SPEED or FX.
Again, hindsight is 20/20, but the lesson here is that you need to make your decision and stay with it.
I would have kept the MLB on FOX broadcast, started NASCAR as a simulcast on SPEED and FX, double boxed the baseball video to show the green flag, and done a brief postgame and then a smooth transition from MLB to NASCAR.
Heck, you know this stuff from your days doing NCAA hoops at ESPN, JD!
You just gotta cover the contingencies.
Bad form compounded with bad timing for FOX.
No one should lose a job, but there ought to be a major metting tommorrow about event integration.
Good Morning JD,
Anon 1029am is probably the best explaintion of this so far. Just another reason to keep anon as an option. And hope you are able to.
Lou
Kingston,NY
anon 1029:
agreed 100%, though as a Yankee hater I wouldn't have wanted extra innings :)
As an avid race fan, I was livid when I found out what FOX had done. Calling my local Fox station alerted me it was a corporate decision. After trying for over 100 laps to try to e-mail Fox (everyone else must have been trying, too, as it was taking FOREVER), I finally gave up so I could concentrate on the race. I will be contacting them later though! To me, a vital part of the race is the prayer, National Anthem (no matter who sings it) and the command to start engines - the waving of the green flag is a no-brainer! I would have been perfectly happy to have changed to another channel in order to see these very important parts of a race. Hopefully FOX and all the other television companies will take note of the 'snaffu' and plan accordingly to cover any over lapping events better for all the fans.
I feel Fox needs to appologize to both groups of fans for their bad call (just a very stern lecture to the employee that made the call should be enough - although last night I was wanting someone's head). I do like the idea of having the pre-race ceremonies shown Thursday when they show the race again would be the right decision.
I think FOX handled things as best they could. People always seem the grip about the pre-race show and how they never watch it because it is irelevant. But now that FOX didn't show a pre-race show, fans are going nuts. I just don't get it.
It was a very high pressure situation for FOX last night. The split screen idea would have been nice. But lets face it. I don't think FOX Was thinking about that at the time. The only reason we thought about it on this blog is because we had all night to think about ideas, FOX just had a couple minutes.
Honestly what happend was the game was near complete. The reason we missed the green flag was because FOX believed the game would be over at any second. I mean as soon as the NASCAR broadcast started, one lap later the baseball game was over.
Asking NASCAR to hault the event for TV is a last resort. We have to remember that these things happen. This is FOX's 7th straight year of broadcasting NASCAR. I am amazed that it took this long for a situation ike last night to happen on FOX.
We all learn from our mistakes and I think FOX learned a lot last night. The most frustrating thing about all this is that FOX tried to please both sides and yet people are still throwing FOX under the bus. FOX could have easily just said screw NASCAR and show the race on FX. The same can be said for Baseball. They could have said screw baseball and shown the whole rest of the game on FX while a PRE-RACE SHOW, not actual racing, was being shown on the FOX network.
I not as angry as many who have posted just thought it was more awkward than I anticipated. I actually have a few questions that JD might be able to find out. Did Nascar delay the race at all? Listening to Jimmie's incar the anthem was done long before the command to start engine to the point where Chad was wondering if they were delaying the race for BB game. Then the warm up laps also took longer and Chad was again saying they were waiting on BB. I also wonder if that last batter hadn't fouled off so many pitches and the game ended 1 minute earlier wouldn't Fox have been a hero? Could they have TIVO'd the start for that minute to make a less abrupt switch or would that decision have needed to be made earlier? Is that an option at all because weren't there 2 BB games at one point and NY/RS not on everywhere so those guys would have been all messed up? Of course my lack of anger could be because my driver won and all the others I follow did well but not so well that I would have seen them if Fox showed all the lead laps cars cross the line
Thank goodness, yet again, for NASCAR coverage on Sirius Radio! It is getting to the point that I am just going to listen and not even turn on the tv. I just see the same 5 or 6 cars and drivers constantly anyway. At least on the radio they mention ALL the drivers, several times during a broadcast!
I agree with those who said the pre-race and race coverage should have been moved to FX. I was in a even worse position because the local Fox affiliate was showing "Thunder Over Louisville"s fireworks show and had to watch the race on a sister station that was extremely poor quality. If the race had been switched to FX for a time being, at least the picture would have been clear!
See I disagree with moving the race coverage to FX. That channel is not offered on my TV. Also, FX was never an option for NASCAR. FX and NASCAR have no contract. IF they did, the rain delayed races would be on that network. People get upset when ESPN changes the channel on us. So FOX stayed on the same channel. And people are upset? I don't get it!
NASCAR had ample warning (at least a 1/2 hour) that FOX was going back for the last inning of the game, so they (NASCAR) could easily have pushed the start back a few minutes till the game was over. It's not as if the race was to start at the top of the hour and broadcasters were going to switch to it. Green flag was scheduled to wave at 8:53, why this time? Why couldnt NASCAR and FOX just say, Start your engines / Green flag will wave immediately following the end of the game or 9:15, which ever comes 1st. It would have engendered good will on both sides and maybe next time, a baseball game would be held up for a 1/2 hour while NASCAR finishes a delayed race.
BillWebz
Bill H: I wholeheartedly agree with your post.
Tomorrow, I imagine Fox will catch hell from NY Post sports media critic Phil Mushnick who positively hates Nascar.
As for the Subway 500, no matter how many cars are shown crossing the finish line, any Cup race that stays green for the last 80-100 laps is a gem!
bill h-
The problem with your idea is you don't just turn on a stock car and go race. You have to warm up the gear oil, engine oil and many other systems. If you just start a cold car and take it out on the track it's going to last about five laps if you're lucky. Also things at the track are coordinated down to the minute for the people paying a lot of money to see the race.
I agree with the anonymous poster at 10:29 a.m., this is a problem with Fox not making plans beforehand. Always remember the 5 P's -
Prior
Planning
Prevents
Piss-poor
Performance
Personally, I cannot stand night races from the West Coast. What's the reasoning behind having the spring Phoenix race at night? From what I can tell, there's no real reason and all of us in the Eastern part of the country aren't usually interested in watching a race on a Saturday night, especially those that end after midnight. If they had the normal afternoon start time, this would have been a non issue.
But since they continue to insist on their night races out west, I feel Fox did everything they could. I was very surprised they booted much beloved baseball to FX and kept racing on the main channel. I suspect that if this were September and the game had a bigger meaning, Nascar would have found itself on FX while the game would have stayed on Fox. But since this game, even though it's a huge rivalry, has very little significance so early in the season, Nascar got the benefit.
I also don't understand all the concern over missing things like the anthem, prayer and all the rest. It's part of the show, but has nothing to do with the race. As long as they show the actual racing laps, I've got no problem with them missing the invocation.
And I'll say what I did last night. People sure seem to have some short term memory problems, especially on other message boards. They are all asking for the heads of the Fox staff, while forgetting how horrible the coverage was last season from TNT and ESPN/ABC. I remember problems with local affiliates leaving race coverage, races being pushed off ESPN and started/finished on Classic. So don't just rag on Fox, because all the others who broadcast Nascar are just as, or even more, guilty.
I would just like to see us move on to Talladega so we can forget about this whole situation. I have been reading message boards and forums all morning and people are nuts. I think we have beet this into the ground enough.
The actual race coverage was good I thought. People just can't get past the fact of the begining, which is unfortunate. They ruined the broadcast themselves, not FOX.
Normally I park by my computer and listen to my driver and his guys during the whole race with the volume on the t.v. off. I didn't have this luxury for a while last night as I'm visiting relatives this weekend. I was forced to watch the first half of the race sans computer and it was incredibly painful to have to listen to the commentators.
Finally, I was able to log on to TrackPass Scanner on lap 150 and talk about RELIEF!! Being able to listen to my driver and his team and hear what the car was doing What an absolute blessing.
I kept track of the t.v. coverage via PIP (my nephew was watching King Kong that was on another channel) and from what I saw, it was an absolute trainwreck of a broadcast.
How much longer do we have to be tortured by Fox's coverage? The switch can't be here soon enough for this fan.
Good morning Sir:
Just some thoughts on last evening's race...
No pre-race ceremonies
No pre-race prayer
No National Anthem
No "Gentlemen Start Your Engines
NO pace / parade laps
No green flag
BUT, all NASCAR fans were privileged to watch the end of the rain delay and the subsequent (much anticipated) strikeout of A-Rod, in lieu of the above non-essential pre-race festivities. And to ensure all Nascar fans witnessed the crucial baseball game (assuming this was a crucial game) it was televised on NOT one, NOT two, but THREE channels...Fox-HD, Fox and Fx channels.
I will be able to tell my kids I witnessed A-Rod striking out after a lengthy rain delay in a critical Red Sox - Yankees baseball game taking place in the first month of the baseball season. It doesn't get any better than this.
FOX had hours to account and deal with this correctly and they screwed up the whole thing. Note to FOX. Not everyone on the planet lives and dies with the Sox and the Yanks. This NASCAR (and baseball fan too) on the West Coast was pissed that they handled this the way they did. The game was being carried on FOX AND FX at the same time out here with NASCAR nowhere in sight. Then they abruptly cut over to it and still missed the green flag even though they said they wouldn't. This was 100% crap on the part of Fox Sports.
anona
I was fast forwarding so did not see or hear the mention of turning to FX for 10 minutes. thanks for that but let's be honest here, last season ESpN cut off a race mid prayer to change stations with no morning so it hAS happened before!:-)
another time at least one IRL race was on THREE different station in one race due to a golf tournament.
All the media reports indicate that Fox is contractualy obligated to show NASCAR events from the start to the finish.
After this mess, I hope Fox learns their lesson, and I'd bet this will be the last time Fox agrees to those terms, or at the very least works in language into the contract to take into account these situations.
Considering what we saw with ABC last year, those terms appear to be unique to Fox.
Its a major blunder to boot a live event from a broadcast network to a a cable channel near its conclusion. On top of that, they way they handled it was extremely poor.
It was outside any normal stoppage, or a normal break in play. Joe Buck may have told the audience this was going to happen, but there was NO VISUAL WARNING! If you were watching at a sports bar, or watching the game with the sound turned down while listening to the radio broadcast, you would have no clue as to what happened.
FOX has been become or still is just as bad as the rest when it comes to showing/broadcasting races. No disrespect JD but they deserve no credit for any they did last night. Showed the same game simo on 2 different stations but DID NOT show the start of the race. They put themselves in that NO-Win Situation when they decided to cut into NA$CAR. What was the stakes of the game anyway? Pride? No playoff scenario's, penants or any such variables that made this game worth all the hoopla!Once again it goes to show that the Networks do what they want when they want to w/o any accountability to the people who watch and keep them in business!. Thanks for the great articles and keep it up!
Regards, 1 ticked off NA$CAR fan!
The solution to the problem is easy. Before the race started and while they were showing the game, they should have had a scroll on the bottom of the screen telling viewers that the game was being shown on FX and that the race broadcast would start when the cars started moving. Once they switched to the race, they could have had a scroll telling viewers that the end of the game was being shown on FX. Everyone would have known what was going on and there would have been few complaints.
Should the situation have been reversed, NA$car would have been shuttled to FX and the Baseball game scheduled at 8pm would have started.
Fox fails to understand the basic Na$car race. People TUNE IN to hear the National Anthem. They tune in to SEE the fly over. They TUNE IN TO SEE THE GREEN FLAG drop. These things are ALL an important part of a race.
Why on EARTH does Fox BID for racing telecasts then NOT SHOW THE RACE but plays the same game on two of their networks.
There WAS NO rock and hard place, only clueless television executives/directors/program managers.
To anon at 11:25 am
Read the 10:29 am post!
That writer nails it on the head! Of course it was high pressure for FOX! But they had hours to plan for it and blew it!!
To anon at 11:25 am
Read the 10:29 am post!
That writer nails it on the head! Of course it was high pressure for FOX! But they had hours to plan for it and blew it!!
I was just giving you my opinion. There is no need to be rude. This is one of the reasons I say anonymous. There is starting to turn into the forums at NASCAR.Com and FOX Sports. Little respect.
Maybe you think they blew it. But I think otherwise. Sorry for giving my opinion.
Who would you rather have pissed off----baseball fans (a couple hundred) or nascar fans (a few hundered thousand)?
Daly Planet Editor said...
Anon 3:15AM,
Please come back and re-post without the kill reference and remember everybody has the right to an opinion. Please state yours and let it be discussed, your points were very valid.
JD
April 13, 2008 9:35 AM
JD, I am confused. Unfortunately there may have been 2 "kill" references and I don't know which one you do not want. I will take out both even if it will take away from the impact of my post. JD, please tell me which one you do not want so I can post correctly later if you wish.
So, After careful consideration I have decided to re-post my comment to the best of my memory:
People, people....Calm down. Not just here, but has anyone seen the FOX Sports blogs? People over there want too see names of people fired and proof their TV careers are ruined. Can you believe that?? That is just scary ridiculous. Add that to a couple of baseball fans over there who are throwing NASCAR remarks that are just plain rude and insulting. When fans start asking for names of all involved and proof something bad has been done to them, you know they just need to calm down. I am ashamed of sports fans here because of their "rabid," "torch-wielding" mentality when it comes to this. We are a better country than this. FOX tried to have it both way with both fans but unfortunately it did not work as planed. It was one misjudgement here. They did one cause physical harm to you or anyone else. JD, thanks for the opportunity to write.
Yes. I have been surfing the internet and the comments on all blogs, forums, and everywhere eles are just rediculous. I cannot believe the upraor this has called. NASCAR fans used to be some of the best. But some have just gotten out of hand. It is embarassing for the sport.
FOX did not murder anyone. They made a mistake. We all make mistakes. We learn from mistakes. FOX has learned. Trust me!
"They did one cause physical harm to you or anyone else."
I meant:
They did not cause physical harm to you or anyone else.
I also would like to say that I have even seen remarks on other blogs calling for numerous actions against FOX and its crew. That just shows how out of hand some fans can get. These fans used to be the best in all of sports.
First, I agree with those who said Fox had plenty of time to plan and that baseball fans had plenty of time to change channels. IMO they should have returned to the race at the engine start command and no later so that the announcers could set the field properly.
But everyone seems to be missing the compromise that would have pleased the majority of the two baseball teams' fans and the majority of the Nascar fans:
Fox ought to have finished the game (or, at least, that batter), in the New York and Boston LOCAL MARKETS and made sure to broadcast the green flag in the rest of the country.
That way the majority of the Red Sox and Yankees fans who didn't have FX would still have seen their game while the majority of the Nascar fans would have seen the start of the race.
Shouldn't that have been obvious?
"Fox ought to have finished the game (or, at least, that batter), in the New York and Boston LOCAL MARKETS and made sure to broadcast the green flag in the rest of the country."
Once you start having some affiliates do some thing while others do another, you go down a confusing road and we will begin to have problems like we had last year with ABC, where some stations aired the race while others did not; and fans became livid.
TO anon 3:43
"should have left the game in NY and Boston"
good idea, and if proprly planed a possibility-however the nature of the network integration set up for Saturday probably did not have NY and Boston markets isolated to a seperate control room that could have been switched away from the network feed. Show more lack of planning
"however the nature of the network integration set up for Saturday probably did not have NY and Boston markets isolated to a separate control room that could have been switched away from the network feed. "
That is wrong. Every local station has its own programing control room called, Master Control. Each and every local station has the ability to break away from the FOX sports feed or any nation feed to go to local breaking news or anything else. They also use it to insert local commercials. Although I do not think it would have been a good idea, the 2 local stations in NY and Boston could have switched to a baseball only feed easily if the FOX sports satellite provided it, which it also easily could have done.
JD, I may be wrong, but you may be using a slightly out-dated version of the FOX sports logo on the front page. The updated one is located on Foxsports.com. I thought this would help. Thanks for the site.
Anon 4:12PM,
I am up in NASCAR land at a hotel on Lake Norman and that is the only logo I had on my laptop.
You are correct, it is the old one.
JD
We can all go down the "What If" road today.... and all of those "What If's" could have been prevented with a little more pre-planning for the circumstances on saturday night.
It's as if the FOX network had never thought of the possibilities.
They had 2 networks ( FOX & FX ) and they still screwed it up.
But I truly feel that NASCAR had the "ball" in their court and they should have went into a "delay mode" before the start. What was NASCAR's hurry to get it started? Weather wasnt an issue in Arizona.
It was only 6pm in Arizona.
What was wrong with NASCAR delaying another 15 minutes to allow the the top of the 9th to play out in Boston ?
Think of the uproar IF SOMETHING would have happened in turn one of the first lap at Phoenix, and FOX didnt join til the end of the backstretch.
It all boils down to both parties (FOX & NASCAR) knowing that we (the fans) will put up with this mediocrity. We have no choice. How do we, as fans, have our say in this situation? ... we dont have a say.
In this case, I dont put ALL the blame on FOX. FOX blew the transition from the game to the race... BUT
NASCAR had control of when THEIR event was to start and they neglected to push the start back another few minutes.
"What was wrong with NASCAR delaying another 15 minutes to allow the the top of the 9th to play out in Boston ?"
Don't be so selfish. you and the FOX audience were not the only audience. You have the viewers on the Armed Services Feed that wanted to see the race at the scheduled time, You have the audience at the track that paid money to be there, more than you did to watch it today on TV. And you have the international feed that is not effected by FOX's problems, with millions of Americans living elsewhere and others that wanted to see a race on saturday on time. That is why NASCAR cannot delay it just for FOX. Because there are other people including our armed service viewing from abroad, that wanted to see the race at the scheduled time.
JD, I hear you are talking to the TV folks at SPEED and others there in NC. Will you tell us about your visit?
Anon 4:48pm -
If NASCAR's main concern is the int'l / armed services audience.... they would never have rain delays or post ponements
They would have rain tires for a guarenteed "scheduled" start every time.
Thats a VERY WEAK argument Anon.
Hey,
Everyone is making good points, and it certainly shows that live TV has lots of options and sometimes lots of problems.
As I mentioned before, Fox does not do this a lot. They had no graphics ready, no lower third ticker or squeeze-back. The announcers did OK, but it was new for them as well.
NASCAR gave them a couple of minutes, but NASCAR is not the issue. It is up to the TV network involved in a live overlap situation to have things prepared in advance. This is the big time.
As several posters have said, the MLB game could have continued for some time with just one hit or run. Fox should have stayed with their plan and made the switch as the cars were on the final pace lap.
Also seen in the comments was the suggestion that a side-by-side video box effect could have shown the baseball folks that the race was about to start and motivated them to change the channel.
Did you notice how many stories on jayski.com's list today dealt with this topic? That would be one.
Thanks for making your voice and viewpoint heard for the real topics that fans care about.
JD
hey everyone! my thoughts on this are pretty simple: i would have preferred to not have the baseball game on 2 fox channels; i would have preferred that fox make a decision as to which station would carry what and when and then execute that decision without second-guessing themselves; i would have preferred to see the green flag drop (just a personal preference that means i don't particularly care about prerace but i concede i'm in the minority with that opinion!); i would have preferred to see mcreynolds wave the green flag live, not on tape. hell, i would prefer that nascar never do night racing from the west coast but that's b/c i live outside philly!
all that being said? i watched a great race last night and i think fox did a fine job in bringing me that race. i was astounded that the last 50+ laps went by w/o commercials; i thoroughly enjoyed hearing knaus lie to johnson about how far ahead he was; i even laughed when the #12 car fried digger! the racing i watched was, to quote the great bud lindeman, "door to door, bumping and banging" and worth staying awake to watch.
so, yep, it was a disappointing start and a disappointing finish and that, fox guys, is unfortunately what will stay in peoples' minds. as those in the restaurant business know, no matter how awful or wonderful the dinner was, it's the dessert -- the finish -- that gets remembered. so, how about we get a better procedure in place in case there's a repeat of last night's start and we have a serious, unemotional discussion about how to broadcast the finish? sometimes, just saying "damn! we made a mistake and here's what we'll do next time." will go a very long way to gaining loyal viewers.
(and fox guys? once you get to that point and can put those words out there? maybe you could coach nascar on how to say them as well? thanks!)
My meetings are just business, but I will be in the studio Monday afternoon with Suzi on Sirius Speedway with Dave Moody. Not sure if Dave is here or in Vermont.
I will post the time when we get things sorted out late morning.
After the TV mess on Saturday night, it should be a fun conversation.
I am not meeting anyone from SPEED or Fox during my time here, sorry about that.
JD
I have both an observation and a suggestion on this matter.
First, the rain that caused the delay in Boston (2 hours, 6 minutes by the way) came in two waves. One of them passed and then another one came eight minutes later. Between the waves, the grounds crew had removed the tarpaulin and Red Sox pitcher Jonathan Papelbon was warming up in the bullpen. If the second part of the rain had not reached Boston that soon, no conflict would have ensued.
The suggestion is that Fox should have handed off coverage of the baseball game to FX right at 8 p.m. ET (5 p.m. PT/my time zone) and stuck to racing after that. If that had occurred, race fans would have seen the pre-race ceremonies, and more importantly the exact moment the green flag started. Even if the baseball game had not restarted, FX would have had studio coverage and the notification at the very least. The point is that NewsCorp should have shown more flexibility.
Ken-Michigan said...
Anon 4:48pm -
If NASCAR's main concern is the int'l / armed services audience.... they would never have rain delays or post ponements
They would have rain tires for a guarenteed "scheduled" start every time.
Thats a VERY WEAK argument Anon.
April 13, 2008 5:11 PM
WHAT??!!!???!? YOUR argument makes no sense. You bring up delays that cannot be stopped, rain etc... the delay you want is not needed. the delays you bring up NASCAR cannot control! the delays you bring up are for safety reasons, the delay you want is for YOUR convenience!! comparing the two different kinds of delays just doesn't make any sense.
I forgot to mention that, due to the preemption of pre-race ceremonies, the moment of silence in memory of NASCAR official Brienne Davis was not shown on Fox. Worse yet, there was not even a mention of her death on the telecast. I feel very badly for the Davis family and Fox owes it a public apology.
"Worse yet, there was not even a mention of her death on the telecast."
If I recall correctly, I believe they did mention it once or twice on FOX during the broadcast. And definitely on SPEED.
JD, I don't have Sirius radio. Will you post the conversation online after the broadcast?
"That is wrong. Every local station has its own programing control room called, Master Control. Each and every local station has the ability to break away from the FOX sports feed or any nation feed to go to local breaking news or anything else. "
The station master control has nothing to do with it. FOX network had a single transmission thread to all stations. You make the assmption that Fox has 2 network transmission paths-not on Saturday. The FX transmission is a cable satellite with separate encryption etc. The broadcast network had no way to allow the Boston/NY stations to split off.
@anon 2:58--I agree and the sad part is that they probably would have done a MUCH better job that most Americans :(
@Jeff--not everyone gets SPEED, for many it's not only a digital channel but also on a higher tier. It's the same as the few times we were sent over to Classic last season and I'm sure we will again this season.
@anon 10:29--definitely agree! While if they had put it on SPEED a lot of complaints would have come out as not everyone gets SPEED, but I agree on committing to one or the other. As has been mentioned BB fans had PLENTY of time to flip over. Yes some may not have cable but isn't there a radio broadcast? While it may not be Joe Buck, at least they could hear the balance. But it definitely seems a "what if" plan should have been to play. What if the rain didn't stop until the race was started?
@sophia--yes, we were watching on Classic and without warning it switched to College Football or whatever it was and we all sat there going "Wha?" They've also shown rain delayed IRL races at midnight eastern so fans had to dodge ANY news program/website to try to avoid hearing what happened.
@desmond & anon 6:12--I've already deleted it but I *thought* there was mention during what we did get of Pre-Race. But I know all the shows mentioned it but I can't remember if they said anything during the actual race.
"The broadcast network had no way to allow the Boston/NY stations to split off."
Yes they can. FOX can put the BB game on a seconds feed for those affiliates. Do you know how many feeds FOX sports has ready to go just in case? Multiple feeds are ready to Carry programing at any time. This is a billion dollar network. Trust me, they can set it up really easily and tell the affiliates in Boston or NY to switch their Master control rooms from the main FOX sports feed to this new one. Thus these stations viewers can now see what FOX put on the new feed.
Nascar.com is saying the race was delayed 16 minutes to try and help out Fox. I guess Nascar held off the start as long as they could
Newracefan said...
Nascar.com is saying the race was delayed 16 minutes to try and help out Fox. I guess Nascar held off the start as long as they could
April 13, 2008 7:15 PM
see? Now why was everyone blaming NASCAR? they tried there best and it did not work out. FOX tried too. and how do the fans thank them? by insulting them. I'm embarrassed to be a sports fans today.
JD, I think you should do a column about the fact that there is no NASCAR Victory Lane on Saturday following a Saturday race. I think that is a big issue. Fans do want to wait a day after the race to see something they normally see an hour after the checkered flag. I think many fans would appreciate it is SPEED would air NASCAR Victory Lane RIGHT after every race even if it is on Saturday. Otherwise we are watching something that happened 20 hours ago. It is almost old news by now. Thanks for the site.
Re: my post @ 7:47 PM
Ok, how about I try this again with out the typos. JD, you can delete my previous post if you want.
JD, I think you should do a column about the fact that there is no NASCAR Victory Lane on Saturday following a Saturday Cup race. I think that is a big issue. Fans do NOT want to wait a day after the race to see something they normally see an hour after the checkered flag. I think many fans would appreciate it if SPEED would air NASCAR Victory Lane RIGHT after every race even if it is on Saturday. Otherwise we are watching something that happened 20 hours ago. It is almost old news by now. Thanks for the site.
Re anon
"Yes they can. FOX can put the BB game on a seconds feed for those affiliates. Do you know how many feeds FOX sports has ready to go
just in case?"
Extra "feeds" are a small piece of the equation, my friend. There are network integration rooms talking to the remote site and commercials loaded on playback equipment for that specific remote. Unless planned in advance and communicated to the affiliate station, the network cannot pull off a 2-station split from the network. What commercials does the local station play? Baseball or NASCAR (and changing them on the fly is NOT simple) just ask a local ad sales person. Whats the verbal or time cue for the affiliate to switch from one feed to another?? Needs to be PLANNED and COMMUNICATED!!
I'm not on FOX's side on this one. They blew this due to lack of planning-not due to an unwillingness to 'throw a switch' at the last minute.
You underappreciate the relationship-technical and sales-wise-between a network and affiliates. It ain't as simple as you'd like to think.
Ask JD
Very interesting. Wind Tunnel will talk about the FOX issue right now. JD I know wind tunnel is not really a NASCAR show, but this is important.
SPEED told us that they would keep Victory Lane as a part of the Sunday night line-up. They did this last season as well.
They run the SPEED Report, Victory Lane and then Wind Tunnel as usual on Sundays even when the Cup Series raced on Saturdays.
You are welcome to email SPEED and talk about this, they have proven to be responsive to viewer feedback on other issues.
JD
Anon 9:02PM,
Dave is echoing what every person like myself who is familiar with the problems associated with addiction is saying.
There is no way to know that someone is on drugs or under the influence of alcohol. "Reasonable suspicion" is absolutely ridiculous as a philosophy.
Drug addicts and hardcore alcoholics do not stagger around like Shriners at a convention.
Despain was right-on with his comments, maybe next time he will sample some comments from this website on his show.
JD
NASCAR had control of when THEIR event was to start and they neglected to push the start back another few minutes.
Not NASCAR's problem.
There were grandstands full of paying customers who were told what time the race would start.
I really doubt a lot of baseball fans sat for two hours, waiting for the game to restart.
If they did, they had to switch to FX to see the final out anyway, so why not just move the game to FX in the first place?
>>> Fox's own Larry McReynolds was the celebrity who waved the green flag that was not seen. ... For the first time in a long time, there was no "Boogity" on Fox.<<<
To quote the kid in "Animal House," "Thank you, God!"
Watching the Monday morning reair of WT. Suprised that DD said what he did. But it was nice to hear him talk about it. I remember many year ago when he was involved in NASCAR more than he is now. Do we ever think he will ever be more involved than he is now?
Lou
Kingston,NY
JD, I have not read all 90 posts, but I thought it was interesting that M. McDowell on WT said that his spotter told him they were waiting a few minutes for the BB game to finish. NASCAR may have tried to help as long as they could and still commit to the fans in the stands.
Lou
Kingston,NY
To anon at 6:12 ET last night: I did not watch the race live and I fast-forwarded a lot of it on tape. I can only conclude that the Brienne Davis mentions were during caution periods. But the fact remains that I did not see a picture of her with her birth and death dates that I saw on SPEED and ESPN2 earlier in the weekend.
whoa...I didn't get home til 11:45 or so, but I had no idea of what all I'd missed! Can't believe this has made people so intense. Anon 10:29 has it right, IMHO--switching from a live event is very 'Heidi' and I would not have had a problem handling it that way. Move NASCAR to FX temporarily. I sympathize with those who do not have FX (or Speed, or ESPN Classic, or whatever) but there is no way to please everyone--some people don't even have cable, believe it or not. (And yes, I have missed events due to not having certain channels myself.) But that's life, not 'life or death'. I also think some race fans are a little over the top when it comes to pre-race stuff. If I am at the event, I would expect to have it, but on TV, on many broadcasts, including the NFL, you *rarely* see/hear the anthem, etc. As to delaying the start, I can't believe how many people give no thought to inconveniencing the fans who paid $80+ (or whatever) a ticket to watch the race. They should *always* have the priority over TV, as well as the consideration of the technical issues someone mentioned (the oil heating, etc.) That they even delayed what they did was impressive. I do agree with those who say a 'visual' is needed to alert a channel change. I know it doesn't help a recording, but I've lost things that way and I got over it--if it means that much you can usually find someone who can 'loan' you a recording. My biggest issue was the end--not showing the top finishers or a finishing order quickly just drives me *crazy*. As for the broadcast itself--I get more from the radio than I ever do from TV, but that's another story.
And BTW, someone--Mike Joy?--at the end of the broadcast mentioned once 'again' how Brienne Davis will be missed. I got more out of reading Dave Moody's piece than I would have from just looking at a photo anyways.
Does fox own Goodyear stock? What about Larry Mac, surely he owns stock in sonoco. I don't know about you, but it was good not to hear that "boggity" crap for a change.
My Opinion and mine only
NASCAR can ONLY be shown on Fox - as mentioned I believe correctly by Erik.
MLB can ONLY be shown on FOX but I believe they have an option for a switch off in an emergency situation which is probably the switch off was done at the last second and ultimately too late.
FX is or was in the MLB contract. They used to show a Division series game on FX when they had two playoff games guess it was two years ago. TBS split coverage with Fox on MLB last year and into the future.
One last point - The Red Sox/Yankees game was a NATIONAL game and could not have been shown only on two stations. Probably national commercials sold for big bucks. Any anyway both teams have their own Nation all over the country. Why should fans in Boston and NYC NOT see NASCAR?
Fox dropped the ball for both sports on many levels and it has been said over and over.
No graphic/ticker for those in no sound situations.
Switching to NASCAR too late - should have been with one to go- damn any contract.
Some baseball fans were going to suffer no matter what but as it turned out we all did suffer.
Lets hope Fox Sports (WE ARE FOX SPORTS) can learn from this fiasco.
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