What a nice change of pace the TNT summer Sprint Cup TV package has been so far this season.
Once the network made it through the road-course race at Sonoma, there was a collective sigh of relief all around. New Hampshire would be a breeze.
This little six race TV deal is tough to produce, but the freelancers working hard to put this package together have had to deal with one big obstacle. NASCAR and the drivers have given them very little good racing to work with so far.
Yes, we did see some passing at Loudon and Kyle Busch winning at Sonoma was a surprise. But, the racing has been far short of spectacular and even the upcoming Daytona race threatens to be another COT "aero-fest."
TNT's best move was to add Kyle Petty and Larry McReynolds to the broadcast team. Although things were a bit rough in year one, this season has signaled a remarkable change of pace. TNT has slowed things down, opened things up and let the announcers have some fun. It has paid-off with the fans.
Bill Weber has mellowed and emerged as a solid announcer this season despite his limited TV exposure to the sport. Wally Dallenbach has thrived with Petty alongside and McReynolds down in the infield. Often, there is a very fluid conversation in-progress with input from all of the TNT personalities. Weber spends much of the broadcast directing "TV traffic."
While Loudon is a bland track in TV terms, the use of medium and wideshots from the TV cameras worked well to keep things in perspective during the telecast. Even though the crew missed a couple of incidents, they were up-front about the situation and explained the reasons why. Many fans are just fundamentally happy that "Digger" and the endless in-car camera shots are long gone.
The TNT graphics package continues to work well, as does the lack of excessive music while the race is under green flag conditions. This season the commercial breaks have been integrated as well as possible and Loudon was tolerable where restarts were concerned.
On a flat one-mile track there is just not a lot going-on sometimes. Petty was the saving grace for the telecast with his ability to talk about any issue and continue the discussion with McReynolds and Dallenbach. Their efforts at keeping a running commentary during the very boring parts of this event made the telecast work.
The RaceBuddy concept created by the TNT and NASCAR.com folks has been getting great reviews and lots of use. Again in this event, both the in-car camera and the battle-cam angles proved to be effective as an adjunct to the main telecast. It was tough to sometimes see battles in the pack and good racing that were just a little too far back to make it to the TNT screen.
It has been fun to watch this concept get tweaked as the races progress and it may be tough for fans when ESPN comes along and the only online option once again becomes Sprint RaceView. Maybe the RaceBuddy application can be used for other NASCAR events in the future.
Finally, we would be remiss in not mentioning that TNT left the air several minutes early once again and directed fans over to the Jack Daniels post-race show on the NASCAR.com website. At first, it was the TNT gang doing some post-race analysis. Then, the Turner folks at NASCAR.com took over and the fan reaction was not good.
Led by Beau Estes, the Turner online gang was less than professional when it came to the post-race show. They mocked Michael Waltrip and even said he would never finish this well again in his career. They continued with this type of "chat room talk" to discuss more drivers in a very different style than TV viewers are used to seeing.
This included making comments about Kurt Busch's wife and even imitating Juan Montoya's Colombian accent while discussing the Kyle Busch incident.
Perhaps, this is the format that Turner believes will draw fans to NASCAR.com after the race and make them interact. The Daly Planet got comments that included the words rude, insulting and awkward about this online show. Fans saying that the NASCAR.com online show is insulting to NASCAR is certainly a new one for us to hear.
All in all, an interesting day with a surprising outcome to the race. If you would like to add your comment about TNT, RaceBuddy or NASCAR.com please click the COMMENTS button below and follow the easy instructions. We do not want your email address and there is nothing to join. We just want your opinion.
The rules for posting are located on the right side of the main page and we thank you for taking the time to stop by The Daly Planet.
87 comments:
I really don't think TNT is any better than last year honestly. Other than Wally, Kyle, and Larry Mac... it is nothing more than a joke.
Their post race coverage after doesn't sound like it's any better. The treatment they gave of Michael Waltrip is an absolute embarrassment to them, and the whole sport. I'm really pissed off at TNT and anyone affiliated with them, what a JOKE.
ESPN seems to have improved, we'll see if they work with SPEED and we can make something of the last half of the year.
No one beats FOX, even if they just show the winner cross the finish line, that's ok.
The TNT show worked for me on the tv. I continue to enjoy the FEELING in the booth this year on TNT. Weber lost some of his grumpieness and I downright enjoy him. He apologizes to off camera talking heads if he has to interrupt or cut them off and the guys just seem to have FUN.
The camera director continues to IMPRESS and gives an old time coverage to the race.
Aside from the TNT OVERSIZED PROMOS for their tv shows on my race, that were the size on my Honda on somebody's GIANT SCREEN TV, I enjoyed the show again.
Now the online post show was downright CRINGEWORTHY! I do not remember the past shows being insulting, ridiculing and downright mean in regards to the drivers we just enjoyed on track? then these two snarky cretins finally past the torch to Larry Mac and that other guy from TNT (Fein?) and I wished they would have stayed with them. Those TNT TV guys NEED to know how DISRESPECTFUL the post TNT ONLINE show is to THE DRIVERS! HELLO.
I sat there flummoxed as these two guys carried on like gossiping school girls. I did see some great interviews I did NOT see later on SPEED.
Michael Waltrip was so somber and serious I kept waiting for him to crack a joke but he did not. I don't even remember many sponsors being named except for NAPA. No secret he has had a rough couple of years and he seemed full of gratitude for NAPA sticking with him.
Like Danica's first win (and Jr's breaking of his drought) much will be made of the how's and the one's that didn't deserve to be in the top 10. Well you know, Michael and the others just took what they got and were happy. Simple as that.
It was something to see the sometimes over the top (and yes I love him, but goofball Mikey) so somber.
Then to throw the show back to the two slobs "HOSTING TO SHOW" to mock Michael and even bring comments about his wife into the show. DISGUSTING!!
Bevo said he found a complaint button and sent in a complaint. Honestly JD, for once I was left almost SPEECHLESS about how to complain about some painfully, thoughtless, tactless hosts, while seeing a couple of great interviews.
It was a bipolar show at best. Interviews we saw were great.
The hosts...well, I can't think of a good ladylike word to insult them with, JD.
But I thank you so much for addressing these slugs.
p.s. I also appreciated the honesty of TNT coming clean when they did not have a camera on Kasey when he spun out.
TNT has made a vast improvement this year, just check the archives on this site for the coverage last year. I think folks have forgotten how bad it was.
As for the NASCAR.com post race show I would suggest fans check the sponsor's web site and click the contact link. I'm sure they would appreciate feedback from their customers. There are a lot of choices on the shelves to choose from.
For the most part the TNT broadcasts have been much improved. The booth chemsitry is a lot better. Bill Weber has really stepped up his game and has noticably been trying very hard to keep the viewers as informed as possible on things like Lucky Dogs, how many cars stayed out and who the first car in line is that pitted under the last yellow flag, and resetting the field as best as possible after the entire field pits.
I also appreciate the little things like no overuse of gimmick camera angles and that they don't use those annoying driver video bumpers going to commercials.
The commercial overload still seems a bit excessive (thank you Hotpass) and the virtual restart pole is still pointless. I'm also very disappointed in their green flag pit stop coverage. I loved the Fox approach of keeping the on-track leader in one box at all times and wish ESPN and TNT would copy it. I am also completely stunned that TNT still takes down the scoring crawl during green flag pit stops. Please keep the scoring crawl on the screen at all times. Don't take it down during green flag stops or during caution flags. The scoring information is always extremely valuable and should not be a "green flag racing before the pit stops start exclusive".
Finally, the post-race coverage continues to be the Achille's Heel of the TNT crew. Yet again they rushed off the air before their allotted programming block ended. They again completely blew off the outcome of the top 35 in owner's points battle, and this week completely blew off several drivers that had absolutely amazing finishes. Michael Waltrip finished 2nd, TNT didn't care. J.J. Yeley pulled off a stunning 3rd, TNT didn't notice. Elliott Sadler, Reed Sorenson, and Casey Mears pulled off surprising top 10 finishes and their faces never even came close to a TNT microphone. I don't care how "lucky" those finishes were, circumstances played out the way that they did. These were the drivers that got the best finishing positions on this day and they should have been covered on TV accordingly. Interiewing Denny Hamlin and not Michael Waltrip or J.J. Yeley? Yikes.
They had plenty of time during the rain delay and in the time between the race being called and the start of the oil show to talk to at least a few, if not all, of them, so to completely blow off all of those stories was an enormous letdown.
Ok, in my rant about the nascar.com show I forgot TNT's blunders for the day (and folks should NOT have to go to computer for comments)
they talked to Stewart who finished 13th???? but no mikey and JJ?
Thanks for reminding me Stfan.
Yes, TNT could improve on post race
Sorry to say this, but Bill Weber would never be considered a solid announcer in my book. He is still average and shouldn't even be in the booth.
I like the camera work, but the commercials have been over excessive.
The graphics from TNT are cheesy as well.
By the way, TNT's TV promos during the race are over sized. The pre race is bloated with fluff and is way too long (I just do work in the other room and don't bother watching the pre race.)
Would it be too much to ask for the announcers to go through the starting grid line up like they did 15 years ago instead of interviewing a driver in his car?
I enjoy MacReynolds, but the others in the booth too often get side tracked into a lot of mindless banter. This was evident at the very end of the race. When the cars were parked on pit road because of rain,it took 14 minutes to display the race results. Throughout that time, no mention of the top 10, no crawl across the screen with the results. Only Kyle flapping his jaws. TNT continues to be a joke.
Ok so the usual suspects did not win the race because of alittle lady luck. Excuse me did Jr. have alittle lady luck with his gas situation a couple of weeks ago and passing the pace car. TNT's nascar.com after the race show was disgusting and in really poor taste, they owe some apologies. Those two hosts have no class and used the airways to discuss their personal dislikes and make fun of people. Post race coverage was terrible and to add insult to it with these two idiots running their mouths about racers and their familes.
Mr. Daly,
I agree with you. TNT, definitely gets the bottom of the barrel tracks to broadcast from. Hopefully Daytona may be a little more exiting from them.
Maybe I was the only one that heard it, but I thought that I heard Mr. McReynolds use a term after the the Harry Gant piece refering to Harry Gant not having a good chance to win a race. Without repeating the actual term it references a man from China. I'm not sure that it is actually derogatory, but I don't believe it should have been used by a professional sportscaster. Especially a sportscaster for NASCAR when the sport is being sued from improper behavior. Hopefully, I just misunderstood him.
That being said, I do agree that the broadcast team is working well. They are not up to Fox's level of course, but they definitely have a lot of experience between Larry McReynolds, Kyle Petty, and even Mr. Dallenbach.
Tried to watch the online post-race show after TNT dumped out, but the whole thing is an insulting joke. Get the kids off that show and let's see some adults who can show some professionalism.
That was my first and last time to watch the NASCAR.com post-race show.
Then again, the TNT on-air post-race was insulting, too. Talking to the 13th place driver--who really didn't want to talk anyway--but not the 2nd or 3rd, is just stupid. They left the air several minutes early, as if there was nothing else to do...but there was a LOT more to do!
TNT clearly bought the Cup races solely as a means for them to promote their shows, not to produce race coverage people will actually want to watch. Between the endless promos and lack of interest in post-race coverage, TNT is the worst of the three networks carrying NASCAR.
TNT is better this year than last for a few reasons:
- Bill Weber has "chilled out" a bit and seems to have more focus.
- Larry Mac is a great addition to any broadcast.
- Kyle Petty, when in his best humor, serves to hold the broadcast together.
- GREAT track shots; Fox and ESPN have lots to learn here.
I do feel for TNT; no matter how hard you want to produce a good broadcast, you need a good race. This just has not happened yet. Is this a comment about the COT?
TNT could earn more credibility by having fewer commercials and the continual push of their programming with the same tired commercials each Sunday. I'm sick of Bill Engvall and have never even watched his show . . .
TNT is producing the worst post-race coverage I have ever seen in any NASCAR television event.
I like TNT's coverage. I think the #1 thing I like about it is there is no Digger and we don't have a stupid bumper cam shot everytime the racing gets good. I still wish they would focus their attention on the "best battle for position" on the track. That was the old ESPN's coverage biggest plus. If it was a battle for 12th they would show it. Show more racing and less tech crap.
One other big complaint... it would be nice to start the race at 1:15 local time. Yesterday's race would have been completed had that happened. I know I have given up my tickets to 2 tracks b/c I can no longer drive home the same night b/c of these ridiculous starting times for the races.
I can't get Weber's "Matt!" out of my head after watching the whole race.
I think TNT's camera work is much better than Fox's, but the number of commercials and promos are still a turnoff -- heck they went to commercial after 10 laps of racing. I don't like Weber, yes,he's improved over that weird dog in the manger attitude he had going last year, but he's still not all that great. Petty and Dallenbach do a good job in the booth and Larry Mac adds a lot with his technical expertise (and no, I don't mind Larry's fractured English, I like it -- it's his way of speaking and there are enough suits involved in racing). The racing was better than it had been but let's face it the COT is a terrible race car and is making for boring races. TNT has no control over that -- Fox could stand up there and shout that the racing was great, but who believes it? Not me. Since TNT feels it necessary to run away so quickly after the race is done, I didn't bother to follow up with the NASCAR.com post race, so I can't comment on that, but if they did act so disrespectfully (even if I don't like a particular driver) there's no reason to treat anyone like that, someone (NASCAR perhaps since they can wield a big stick with the best of them) should talk to them about it. That sort of attitude is one reason I don't listen to the entertainment shows (it's all gossip and why do I care?)
Mike Bell and Beau Estes were like a couple of jealous high school brats using TV to talk trash, It was about as low class as you can get, I will not watch the post race show on TNT anymore. The actual TNT broadcast wasn't too bad, Kyle Petty is doing a great job keeping everyone on the race. Could have used better post race interviews.
Here's the rub with so-called sportscasters today.
TNT's Estes and Bell have no professional points of reference from which to draw professional style or inspiration. True sports journalists like Jim McKay and Howard Cosell are long gone. Instead, tv "hacks" like Estes and Bell think the only way to 'break through' is to become a comedy team. They think that they're just like Dan Patrick/Keith Olberman duo, but they (and apparently thier management) are unaware of the facts that Patrick and Olberman were knowlegeable journalists whose on camera chemistry was "lightning in a bottle". In other words, they were sportscasters first, comedians second. And, they knew sports, something that is obviously lacking in the two dolts who are playing at tv at .com.
What a sad state of affairs
Bray Kroter
The post-race online show was horrible. As a Michael Waltrip fan I watched specifically to hear his post-race interview/comments and I was appalled at what was said about Michael by the hosts. I think everyone knows that Michael has struggled the past few years and that pit strategy helped him finish as well as he did but Michael is a two-time Daytona 500 winner who deserves a little respect as do the others who were mocked. It's one thing to joke or keep things real but it's another to be insulting. Their worst sin might have been that their "jokes" weren't even funny. A total embarrassment for TNT and Nascar.com. I certainly won't be watching the post-race online show again.
ritchie,
That is an old saying that does not refer to the ethnic origin of the person, but it actually about the struggle to get something done when the odds are against you.
Trust me, McReynolds is one of the most religious people you will meet in the sport and a family man. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clear that up.
JD
The Jack Daniel's post race show has always been this way. Its a lot of trash talk and banter. Don't like it, don't tune in. I don't really participate in it, just read over the banter.
I love the TNT guys this year. Webber has gotten so much better. Kyle and Wally play off each other well. They are refreshing. I like the way they arent afraid to say what they think. To each is own I guess.
The whole package is different from what we see from the other networks, so I enjoy it.
~Sharon~
They need to get rid of the two idiots on the post race show.
But TNT is SO MUCH better than Fox and ESPN. I hate for their 6 race segment to end. JMO.
The post-race online show was horrible. As a Michael Waltrip fan I watched specifically to hear his post-race interview/comments and I was appalled at what was said about Michael by the hosts.
I agree.
If these people want to do sports radio, where you trash everyone for fun, then they ought to go do that.
But this was a post-race show, and I wanted to hear about Mikey.
Never going to listen to them again, and I'll be writing Jack Daniels. After all, if they'll trash one driver, who's to say they won't trash Clint Bowyer some day?
Post race online was horrid. Why didn't someone jerk them off the air or at least kill the audio? I don't care who placed where in the race (well, I do care, but they clearly didn't),their comments slammed racers who risk life and limb.
I heard Bob Dillner interview Michael Waltrip under an umbrella in the pouring rain. Nicely done -a good touch by Dillner.
I think TNT has done a good job considering what they have to work with. They can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Many of the little irritating things mentioned would not be noticed if there was action on the track. People tend to notice and pick at little things when they are bored.
sharon,
While that may be a nice way in your mind to solve the problem, it really does nothing for the sport.
TNT directed their viewers to migrate to NASCAR.com for the post-race show and these are the reactions of the fans.
What has changed this season is that the NASCAR TV partners (TNT and SPEED) are now directly driving their TV viewers over to the video portion of NASCAR.com.
What is happening is that TV viewers are now seeing the very different style and the very different approach that the Internet folks use to keep computer users involved.
It should be interesting to see if TNT makes some changes before the Daytona post-race show. As one TDP reader said, if Clint Bowyer won because of rain would they trash the Jack Daniels driver too?
JD
From what I've read here, I'm glad I didn't bother with the post race 'show'. I continue to be impressed with TNT, not only for their camera work of the race, but with the fact that the announcers don't seem to feel they have to fill every second of air time with babble. And they don't use ever excited voices to try to convince me that the dog I'm watching is AN EXCITING RACE! When they missed something on the track (Kasey's spin), they admitted it, and gave the fan the best they could to explain the situation. I still think Bill Webber is better at editorializing (or eulogising) than he is at play by play, but at least he hasn't been as pretentious this year. Kyle and Wally are delightful to listen to, and seem to truly enjoy what they do together
Concerning the post race show on Nascar.com, they remind me of the Jim Rome style of broadcasting. The more you trash someone you don't like, the better it is. These two think this is their means to a shot at the big time.
Ok..I am going to have to go to nascar.com with a compass, and a map and hope to find an address to complain about these two slobs. I have had time to calm down, I was actually wincing during some of their MW comments.
JD this is what scares ME a 50 something woman who likes things to be organized and well run: If this show is somebody's IDEA of getting fans INTERACTIVE with smarmy comments and insulting humor, count me OUT.
Frankly, I also think TNT and NASCAR (Who sold their sport to TNT online) should APOLOGIZE for how those goons treated the DRIVERS!?
I know the guys in the booth can't do it on their own next week but if somebody running the show and the company had backbone, THEY WOULD apologize for telling us all to tune in on our computers, as there was little post race-on TV. Or at least the wrong guys interviewed. I like Tony but LEAVE him alone. He was 13th not 3rd.
To promote a show that was so cruel in it's "humor" showed no class. I admit I saw some good interviews with a couple of drivers but OUCH.
Perhaps somebody from NASCAR needs to sign up for the spine donor program so they can apologize for the fans who went there, only to get their drivers and sports treated like dirt. I kind of felt ambushed.
p.s.Oh, and if the online show was THIS bad before I missed it or was not paying attention while these two wannabes spoke. I think this is only the second time I have actually watched it for more than a few minutes.
After reading the comments about the post-race on NASCAR.com, it makes me glad that a thunderstorm came and I lost my satellite connection.
I agree with you, JD, that TNT isn't getting a whole lot of good racing to show. But, kudos to the team in the booth for keeping my interest up.
I'd never bothered to watch the Jack Daniels Post-race show on NASCAR.com until yesterday.
I won't be coming back.
Childish, unprofesional crap.
Jack Daniels needs to remove their name from this awful, disrespectful kiddie show where wannabees trash people who are actually out there competing.
Bell and Estes are total losers. I could not believe how nasty and hateful they were. I loved being able to hear Michael Waltrip's interview, but wish that I had turned it off when those two got started. They do not know how to report on Nascar (or probably anything)and if they are on there again, I, for one, will not be there. Regardless of how the race was won or how someone finished, it happens a lot in Nascar, and they do not deserve to be dissed that way. I for one hope that they are canned before this weekend at Daytona. Also, why cut the race broadcast short? They still had 10 minutes left and they leave the air to show a rerun? What's with that?
Mr. Daly - Thanks for the reply and explaination.
I agree, I certainly don't think he would say anything derogatory, but with the atmosphere created by the lawsuit, all representatives of NASCAR have to walk on egg shells.
If you type that term into Wikipedia (as I did to see what it meant), you will see two NASCAR references associated with the saying. One by Jeff Hammonds, and someone has already posted that Larry McReynolds used the term yesterday.
I don't like this world anymore than anybody else, but the fact is that the game has changed.
Why did TNT dump out of NASCAR coverage with time left? They sure weren't afraid to run an hour of pre-race coverage, but then they couldn't finish the story and stay on the air for another ten minutes?
This is why we had to deal with the NASCRA.com debacle. If they'd done it on the air, the post-race stuff would have been respectful.
I think that TNT owes race fans a huge apology! The apology that they owe the winning drivers, Busch and Waltrip, are even bigger! Let's see those two clown announcers race a racecar with the boys and see how good they do. I cannot believe how insulting to anyone and everyone their comments were. I'll skip this show if those two are hosting it.
The Jack Daniels post race comments regarding Michael Waltrip and Kurt Busch's wife were so insulting. I don't think Michael is the best of the drivers out there, but he is trying, as a new owner, to compete with many established teams, so more power to him! In any event, to insult his ability to win, not once but several times, was uncalled for.
I agree with just about everyone here. Solid race coverage, but it all fell apart in postrace.
I had thought that the NASCAR.com post-race show had the same people who called the race earlier. As I learned today, having not actually watched it, I was wrong.
If the other posters are correct, the hosts would not even pass the auditions on Last Comic Standing. (That's a reality show, the American Idol of comedy.)
I'm afraid that either - or both - of the hosts will soon become the Don Imus of NASCAR.
Desmond
I think Imus gets paid to be outrageous and controversial! His schtick for years from what I read.
These slugs hosting a "NASCAR post race show" basically insulted drivers, and thus the fans, with their attitude/behavior while in between their dreck, we got good video clips of interviews!
It doesn't get much more 'bi-polar' than that!
I won't even address the slug hosts by name. And that's with apologies to real slugs of the earth !
:-)
After watching the 1st four races on the TNT schedule, I must admit that their coverage has definitely improved compared to last year. Bill Weber is easier on the ears, Kyle & Wally now sound like they get along better, the pit announcers are on par with the other networks, Larry Mac is the best "crew chief" on TV and the camera crew & director no longer make me swear out loud at my TV.
The only two things that irked me yesterday was the early post-race exit (no big surprise) and another Wally's World segment from POCONO talking about track conditions at Loudon, NH. For pete's sake, TNT, please don't show that footage again. I can't prove it, but I believe Wally & Kyle recorded voice-over tracks for the recycled video.
I must also commend Kyle Petty for his energy & enthusiasm while on the air yesterday. All race fans (especially us Dads) know how he must be feeling inside every time he has to pass through the gates at NHMS. This is a hallmark of a true broadcast professional.
Glad I wasn't paying attention...I had the JD show on but was sucked into the Black Gold show. Sounds like I didn't miss a lot.
I've always liked TNT's coverage more than any other station - I'm not sure why but maybe I like the people better (however, I miss Benny Parsons incredibly). My biggest gripe with TNT this season is the ridiculously long pre-race show! I appreciate some of the features they do, like the interviews with the legends of our sport, but I think they'd better fit into an separate special instead of time that should be spent giving driver interviews, etc.
I've watched the post-race show after every TNT broadcast this year but always close the window after they are finished with the driver interviews. Unfortunately, with the technical problems at the track, I was forced to listen to the trio of unprofessional, ignornat "reporters". I was absolutely appalled by their immature comments about Kurt Busch (and Eva Busch - I mean, are you kidding me? Grow up!), Michael Waltrip, JJ Yeley, Kyle Busch, Juan Pablo Montoya (did I miss anyone?). They made a mockery out of our sport and NASCAR fans! It was such a relief when the TNT cameras kicked back in so I didn't have to look at their faces anymore. They absolutely disgust me.
I will watch the show again because I enjoy the TNT portion of it, but the window will be closed the moment it goes back to this trio of wannabes.
Anon 2:05PM,
I think it was a budget issue this season for TNT. Bill Weber did briefly mention that the segment was taped at Pocono, but that really does not help to make it Loudon.
The big issue with using Pocono to tape a couple of Wally World Segments is that the tracks he tried to describe are completely different from Pocono and nothing from the in-car perspective applies.
Maybe they will cut an original at Daytona, let's hope so for a race that big.
Thanks for all the great comments and keep them coming.
JD
When did the Daly Planet go from covering TV to giving opinions on NASCAR Racing?
I work on a computer five days a week, so the LAST thing I want to do is be on one over the weekend. Am glad I missed whatever crap they had on after TNT prematurely took race coverage off the air.
Bill Weber's voice continues to bug me like nails down a blackboard.
I enjoyed Victory Lane last night, especially the part where they talked about Kurt Busch and Jimmy Spencer going to dinner together at MI. Glad they patched things up and can laugh about the past!
Mary
Anon 3:48PM,
I understand your comment. What we were trying to do is start a discussion on the lack of racing and good content for TNT during their six race stretch.
Fox enjoyed lots of headlines and some good racing, but it just seems TNT has been handcuffed by gas mileage and tire choices on final pit stops.
Trust me, I have no desire to cross-over into analysis of this sport, but I needed to talk about the racing for the story.
JD
I'm about to post this:
I wonder if a lot of the people who commented on here even watched the post-race show on NASCAR.COM. I did, and I went back and watched it since it is archived on their site.
http://www.nascar.com/2008/multimedia/jd/
Here are the comments in question that people are raising "holy H-E-doublehockeysticks" about.
From Mike Bell, co-host...
1) Michael Waltrip had zero top tens all season. This will be the only one he'll get all season. (The first part of that statement is FACT, the second is an opinion...and based on MW's performance, a pretty good prognostication if you ask me). If you're a Michael Waltrip fan and don't like the facts, then maybe you need to find a new favorite driver.
2) "Kurt Busch's wife is hot." How is that a putdown? That's a compliment!
3) Mike did an impression of Juan Montoya saying that "if I can wreck a teammate in Formula One, I can wreck (Kyle Busch)." There was no tone of sterotyping/racism and he wasn't making fun of Juan. He was personifying him using his voice. I actually found it funny.
4) When a fan asked via the chatroom if Mike Bell had ever finished second in a NASCAR race, he said "no, but I've never gone 0-for-my first 462 or my first 15 years." Once again, FACT. Pull up his stats. Michael started his Cup career in 1985 and didn't win until 2001, a span of 15 seasons and 462 races. If you don't like the facts because it's your favorite driver that it applies to, too bad.
5) In a Michael Waltrip voice: "Buffy will come kick your butt, (Mike Bell)." Sarcasm and personification, perhaps? Yep. Was he making fun of Buffy? In no way, shape or form.
Look, people. I'm sorry if you're a Michael Waltrip fan and you can't handle his lack of performance. But don't suggest that just because a member of the media states the facts or predicts something that doesn't put your driver in the best light, don't whine and complain that he is being made "fun of".
You want to talk about "putdowns"...here is comments from FANS in the chatroom who ACTUALLY watched the show that had what I consider more "offensive" material that what you accused Mike (and even Beau ?) of...
All of the below from fans...
1) "At least it wasn't Michael wrecking everyone this week..."
2) "Michael Waltrip is the first loser..."
3) "Juan is an idiot."
I wouldn't even consider any of the above problematic. But if we've developed into an uber-PC world where we can't even accept banter, debate and opinion from fans (or hosts), then we should consider getting a spine.
jason,
I also reviewed the show prior to posting my original column.
In the context in which you offered it, those words are stripped of the emotion of the race and the video that goes along with it. Amazing how words can take on new meanings in different contexts.
The difference in the JD post-race show between then and now is that TNT asked the entire TV audience to move over to the Internet and what they got was a big contrast.
Larry McReynolds, Marc Fein and other TNT personalities contributed to the show and then things changed.
There was a big shift in tone as the NASCAR.com guys took over. I understand your point, but instead of Internet users watching a video program that they had seen before, this time many TNT viewers were present.
The sarcastic tone and irreverent style of the Internet bunch could have been exactly how they wanted to do it. Unfortunately, the audience had changed.
My belief is what you are seeing on this TV-related blog is the TV viewers who were not prepared for this type of Internet environment.
If Mike Joy had said Kurt Busch's wife "was hot" or Larry McReynolds has imitated a Hispanic accent when talking about Montoya, they would no longer be employed.
You are posting your comment from an Internet perspective and others are posting from a TV perspective. This is an issue we run into here quite frequently.
All I would ask in future comments is that you limit them to your opinion and do not "tell" others what to say or think.
Nice job of summing up the content and I appreciate you taking the time to do that for us.
JD
Your quotes only serve to support the posters who say these numbskulls think they can get real jobs by being "snarky" and insulting the people they're supposedly covering.
If this is so common, why do I not recall ever having seen any of it during on-the-air post-race shows?
jason,
I am going to ask you to review my comments above and then come back and re-post.
Glad to have your comments, but we have our rules here as well. Thanks.
JD
I watched it and won't be watching it again. The comments they made were insulting not only to Michael Waltrip but JJ Yeley and Kurt Busch. The reason I tuned in is because I thought TNT cut their coverage early and I wanted to see an interview with some of the other top 5 drivers that they somehow were unable to locate. If I knew I was tuning into something that unprofessional, I wouldn't have bothered. Jack Daniels should move quickly to remove their name from anything this childish.
Great call by the 55 team to repeatedly pit for fuel during caution laps to give them that advantage with rain in the forecast. Jimmie Johnson did the same thing a few weeks ago when he won on total fuel strategy and somehow he gets more credit than the guys who made it work for them yesterday.
J.D.,
I think Turner Media and Jack Daniels are going for a "morning zoo" format in which nihilism is de rigeur.
I watch the webcast with the sound off until the press conferences appear.
By the way, Don Imus is nothing like these people. He's undergone a 180° change since his firing and return to radio. Incidentally, he is a NASCAR fan and will have his program advertised on the trunk of a car in the Nationwide series this weekend.
Kenny
Alameda, California
Tone of voice and body language is EVERYTHING in TV and radio.
It is not what you say but "how" you say it.
Thanks for pointing out things taken out of context, JD. So many of us share the exact sentiment of that online show. So it is not thin skinned fans by any stretch of the imagination.
So let me see...
Charles Barkley and numerous other "analysts" point out when an NBA team/NBA player/MLB team/MLB player/(insert sports team or player here) is doing bad and it's "okay" and they're great, but a guy points out "facts", style of delivery or not, and he's "putting people down" and "making fun of them"? Wow. If Mike wasn't pointing out "facts" about a less popular driver (i.e. Kurt Busch or Kyle Busch), this debate wouldn't even be happening. I've yet to hear how any of the drivers were "insulted". Mike gave nothing but facts and one prediction -- that Michael would not get another top-10 all year. People make predictions all the time. Nobody barked when Darrell Waltrip predicted that Junior would get five wins this year. Why was nobody complaining? Because he was praising Junior.
And warning taken, JD. I won't say what people can and cannot do. But let me pose this question...why is it that some who have posted in this very blog have told us not to "watch this crap" yet their comments remain?
Kenn Fong,
Is this "Don Imus" that you speak of the one that just made a "racist" comment on the radio not too long ago in reference to Adam "Pacman" Jones? So much for a 180.
Thank you, Sharon, for appreciating the "different style" the show has. As JD even pointed out, it's a different kind of show (interactive) in a different kind of medium and potentially for a slightly different audience.
The answer to JD's question:
"As one TDP reader said, if Clint Bowyer won because of rain would they trash the Jack Daniels driver too?"
Nobody trashed Kurt Busch. They may have hinted that "luck" was on Kurt's side. And it was. Kurt himself even admitted it wasn't the best car and he had parts falling off it and everything was going wrong -- he even said so in his media center interview. So Kurt can imply that luck somewhat played into his hand, but if Mike makes the same comments, it's bad?
So I don't understand where people are coming up with anybody "trashing" anybody.
Too much!
Are we going to have pie charts next????
Ah come on Jason S., who are you? Bell or Estes undercover trying to explain themselves :) There is no good explanation, they crossed the line, your kind is not wanted in Nascar, pure trash at others expense. Those drivers that finished in the top 10 have alot of fans.
I have not read the comments posted here yet.
Mr. Daly I read your comments about the "post race show online"
your comments were good as far as they went - let me give you the words I gave Jack Daniels ( or whoever) thru the contact us button.
Racist & degrading - mocking a persons accent is Racist period.
The 2 buffoons who thought that was funny should be fired for Racism period.
What a pair.
The bit about Kurts wife was Rude, Childish,& Degrading to be polite - those 2 dolts do not have a clue how to act in public.
Whoever thought it was a good idea should be demoted or completely separated from their income and employment responsibilites now.
I watched that entire thing waiting for an apology and none was forthcoming.
Its been 24 hours and I'm still ticked.
I have actually enjoyed the TNT races this season, sometimes Kyle and Wally can wander off topic when there is actual racing to talk about but I love the camera angles and Larry Mac with his toy. I question commercial placement at times but it's not a screaming question. The animated tower for restarts needs to go this isn't a drag race. I also noticed they almost missed calling the green flag for this weeks race because they were chatting. Guess I miss the belts and the BBB. I do take issue with the post race coverage or should I say lack of it. Leaving early and not interviewing the 2nd and 3rd place driver is unacceptable. No review of the top 35 is also not acceptable and has happened every week.
Since we were directed to go to Nascar.com for more postrace coverage I did especially since MW and JJ were snubbed. I have watched it before but I was appalled, opinion about the way someone is running all year I can handle (I am a MWR fan) making fun of the way a driver talks, bring up their wives in a demeaning way is unacceptable. Saying Eva is hot is not a compliment it's demeaning, saying she is beautiful is a compliment. Why was it OK for Kurt who was running 15-25th all day any different then Michael and JJ who were doing the same thing. They only bashed Michael who hasn't missed a race this year and is inside the top 35 unlike JJ. It appears that TNT wanted TV viewers to find nascar.com that's why Marc and Larry Mac were there but I for one will mute everything but the interviews. I understand their desire not to lose the internet traffic they already had and posters will say negative things (try watching Windtunnel) but the hosts were just unbelieveable.
As far as JD's comments about the races I'm not sure I agree because from my view Dover was the most boring race of the year and I was there.
To all the Michael Waltrip fans who posted here, thank you. I have enjoyed your comments immensely. Let's see if I can summarize: (1) MW did not get the serious dignified treatment he deserved. (2) The media people were juvenile, and their act is not funny.
Am I the only one who sees the irony here?
I think Turner Media and Jack Daniels are going for a "morning zoo" format in which nihilism is de rigeur.
Maybe they can get a radio gig and leave this one to actual professionals, then.
Jo, you say:
"mocking a persons accent is Racist period"
But you see, he wasn't "mocking" his accent. People do impersonations of other people all the time. Mike even said that he was PROUD of Juan Pablo for admitting he was fed up with Kyle Busch and that's why he wrecked him.
I applaud newracefan...he even said he can accept when his driver is being "critiqued" for their on-track performance this season.
So let's see people are made because...
1) Mike factually laid out statistics about MW's career and make a reasonable prediction that neither he nor JJ Yeley will get another top 10 this year (no, not their CAREER as said by JD)? At least newracefan can even admit that's not a big deal to have his favorite driver called as it is. If my favorite driver is struggling and somebody calls a duck a duck, I don't have a beef with it. If he says he's a horrible piece of trash...then I might have a beef. But facts (and a well-based prediction), folks, don't equal mockery. Sorry.
2) Mike impersonated Juan Montoya ... all the while praising him for his honest. But yet Mike was "making fun of him" simply because he talked in a dead-on Juan voice? That's what you DO when you do an impersonation. I guess Frank Caliendo should be fired for doing George Bush or Swedish Chef impressions. That's so racist.
3) Mike called Eva Busch "hot".
Wow, you're right...we should be all up in arms at the "unprofessionalism" of this "slug". We should have his head on a platter ASAP.
no irony. So michael can be silly.
He does not personally attack somebody repeatedly just to be malicious.
He can also be very funny and sponsors like him so he must be doing something right.
the only irony I see is you enjoyed the post race show online and enjoyed the bigoted and mean spirited comments.
Mr. Daly
Is this turning into the let Jason bash everybody show?
Are you kidding, anonymous? (nice name, BTW).
It's been baseless attacks on the hosts of the show. It seems to me a large portion of the people in here are Michael Waltrip fans...and they just can't stand it when a member of the media calls it like it is.
And on top of that, how is it "Jason bash everybody?" It's about 100-1 here.
I've yet to here from any of those 100 how anybody "mocked" Michael. Was his name and/or statistics brought up more than once? Yep, when a FAN from the chatroom "challenged" Mike Bell to "finish second in a race like Michael Waltrip". The fan wanted to debate Mike vs. Michael, so Mike brought up Michael's career stats (0-for-462). Again, sorry if you're a Michael Waltrip fan and don't like stats.
Again, stats don't equal mockery.
Jason, While I appreciate you reading what I had to say it seems you chose to take my words out of context so just for the record. The Jack Daniels post race show except for the interviews, media clips and Marc and Larry was demeaning, derogatory, and downright juvenile. PS The him is a her.
Well, it has been pretty interesting to see the TV people have one view and Internet guys like Jason have another.
He absolutely does not get what we are saying and refuses to acknowledge that there is another point of view. Imagine that.
On the other hand, it seems like the post-race online show has shot itself in the foot by being itself.
One of the big issues where "convergence" like this is concerned is what happens when two very different audiences are pushed into the same place by technology. That seems to be the issue here.
Guys like Jason come from a "harsher" Internet perspective and are used to the trash talk and the demeaning language as a part of the conversations.
As I mentioned in my post, the very people from TNT who provided part of the video for the post-race show would have probably been fired on the spot for saying the very things the NASCAR.com crew said. What a contrast.
Jason is done, he made his point and so did everyone else. What will be interesting is to see if the NASCAR.com guys who have read your comments affect some changes for next week and how the Internet audience responds.
Thanks.
JD
JD
Thanks for your last response. I guess this means we have to watch and listen next week to see if TNT heard our gripes (and those from other places I lurk)
newracefan, I was hoping you would make an appearance and correct the gender issue. :-)
JD, do you think this could be an age diffence thing as well? I know I am well beyond the demographics tv/internet looks for...but I always thought nice and polite was always in style.
And there ARE ways to poke fun at situations without making it personal. Somebody else made a great post but my swiss cheese mind lost where I was going.
Thanks
Mike, please drop me an email at editor@thedalyplanet.tv when you have a moment. Thanks.
JD
Jason S. said...
Jo, you say:
"mocking a persons accent is Racist period"
But you see, he wasn't "mocking" his accent. People do impersonations of other people all the time. Mike even said that he was PROUD of Juan Pablo for admitting he was fed up with Kyle Busch and that's why he wrecked him
--
Excuse me - re watch the show - it was racist - as JD pointed out just the words don't seem that bad, his mannerisms & actions added to it made it mocking. Do Not tell me what to think you are not some superior being.
--
3) Mike called Eva Busch "hot".
Wow, you're right...we should be all up in arms at the "unprofessionalism" of this "slug". We should have his head on a platter ASAP.
--
Try again Jason rewatch see the whole attitude actions and words together.
Do not talk down to those who have a different opinion, we are not stupid - as your tone implies.
BTW which one of those 2 on that show are you?
Sophia,
This is a culture clash of the highest order. It happens when you have two distinct groups that are pushed together.
The TNT viewers are not used to this type of casual Internet "anything goes" approach and the regular JD post-race chatters are like "what are you all talking about?"
The issue is also divided by age, and that certainly is a technology driven agenda. Folks who grew up with constant chatting speak a very different language than many NASCAR fans.
Remember, this is the sport that went after the "new fans" last season and fell flat on its face. Brian France said NASCAR was going old school this year and sending the veteran fans over to NASCAR.com for an online post-race show is a big deal.
That is the reason I allowed this topic to be debated, it is a big deal.
There are all different types of media that surround NASCAR. The sport is heavily technology driven from the headsets and scanners in the stands to RaceBuddy and Hot Pass.
Just like we watched other NASCAR media things get sorted out, we will keep an eye on this issue and watch the management get involved and decide how to present this online program.
Thanks again for all the comments, please direct any questions to me directly about this topic and read the rules on the main page before posting for the first time.
We have worked very hard to keep this forum safe for any fan to voice their viewpoint, and will not tolerate "telling" someone else what they should be thinking or doing. Debating is fun, being mean will not cut it here.
Thanks as always,
JD
To Anon at 9:49 - This is anon 9:09 again. You assume too much, and you assume incorrectly. Kindly go back to my original post and read it carefully. I said I enjoyed the posts of MW fans. I DID NOT say I enjoyed the post-race show or the conduct of the hosts. In fact, I never watched it. Judging by the comments, it is not something that would appeal to me in any way. I am old school. I do not engage in that behavior and do not approve of those who do.
In the past, when I have dared to suggest that I find Michael Waltrip's media schtick to be juvenile, his fans have descended on me with assorted advice: (1) Get a sense of humor, this isn't brain surgery, (2) Lighten up, (3) If you don't care for it, don't watch it.
It seems MW fans can't follow their own advice. When the shoe is on the other foot, they scream like banshees. I find it funny and ironic. Judging by past behavior, I don't expect MW fans to be able to recognize either in this case. Not everyone who comments in this blog is a MW fan, and I was making my comments for the others.
Now, I didn't see the post-race show, so I can't comments on the specifics, but I think a big part of the problem is that the TV viewers don't know Beau and his partner from a hole in the wall. They are never seen on NASCAR TV and when they appear online making questionable comments about drivers and those connected to them, they sound like some stick-and-ball shock jocks or sportswriters who don't know the first thing about NASCAR. And it's one thing to have those comments on some small market radio station or paper, but when they are broadcast on NASCAR's own website, that's when it becomes a creditibility issue for the sport.
They are never seen on NASCAR TV And now we know why!
I tune in the NASCAR races to watch a race, not 1 1/2 hour pre-race, what's up with that? Just a 30 min pre-race would be all that is needed, then let's race!!
I am totally P'Oed with the Post Race show on Nascar.com,The hosts showed thier IQ for sure,they were mocking Michael Waltrip,Kurt Busch's wife this is not journalism it was tabloid reporting all three hosts should be ashamed of themselves and may we never hear another word out their mouths they should be Fired and go down the road!
ron,
As I have posted before in my columns, there are now four and a half hours of pre-race programming before every Sprint Cup race.
Because these shows are on three different TV networks, they are often just a re-hash of exactly the same content with different announcers.
In fact, these shows often have the same drivers as guests who say the exact same things on each program.
The glut of pre-race programming has lessened the appeal of the very product they are trying to promote.
My final point is that when the combined time of the pre-race shows is longer than the race itself, NASCAR has issues.
JD
I don't get the aversion to rpe-race programming. If you don't like it, not watching it will not affect whether you see the race.
So don't watch it if you don't like it--turn on your TV closer to the race start-time--but don't argue that it isn't worth airing.
Anon 9:27AM,
Thanks for your comment. Our discussion about pre-race program has hinged on the fact that the fans are not well-served by having three networks repeat the same content.
We have less long-form NASCAR shows on-the-air this season than ever before. That is a big issue.
This week once again from Daytona, SPEED will hold the post-race Victory Lane show until Sunday night and only ESPNEWS will be on TV with any kind of post-race interviews.
This blog hosts discussions about NASCAR TV, and one topic this season is the glut of pre-race and the lack of post-race programming.
Currently, there are no programs at all dedicated to the Truck or Nationwide Series and the regional action like the Camping World and the Mods are almost totally ignored.
If you watch the four and a half hours of pre-race for Daytona, I think you might get the point that we are trying to offer for discussion.
JD
How can you seriously write: "Bill Weber has mellowed and emerged as a solid announcer this season despite his limited TV exposure to the sport." Weber is absolutely clueless. How much more apparent can this be than at Loudon where at one point the telecast was summed up like this: [crickets, crickets] Weber: The cars are really flying around this place. [crickets, crickets]
Anon 11:35AM,
Dave Moody and I were talking about this Monday on Sirius. It has to be tough to try and step-into this sport for only six races and that is it.
Last season, it became clear pretty quickly that Weber was upset by the TNT dynamics and things never got on the right track.
It only got worse at Sonoma with the Petty fiasco. The Package ended with a thud.
This season, Weber has been stepping aside and letting Petty and McReynolds handle the heavy lifting, which he should have been doing in the first place.
Just like Jerry Punch, Weber is a trained and experienced reporter who finds himself in a play-by-play role almost by default.
It was just my personal opinion that this season he has been doing a solid job with car, team and driver ID's while keeping a much better flow going than last season.
Trust me, your opinion is absolutely equal to mine. Perhaps you could expand on what you would like to see changed for these final two TNT races?
JD
JD,
My perspective is slightly different. It is not so much that I like or dislike the content of the online show, it is just not what I expect of a post-race show, and especially not what I expect of the only post-race show in town on race night.
the post race comments by bell and estes should require a public apology and immediate demotion to trash collection since they like trash so much. i am furious.
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