NASCAR has announced the fines, Joe Gibbs has offered his response and the stories have all been published. But for the TV guys, some loose-ends are still waiting to be tied-up where "magnet-gate" is concerned.
Wednesday on NASCAR Now reporter Marty Smith spoke directly with Gibbs but left the outstanding issues still on the table. Gibbs politely declined to fill-in the details of who did it or how they got it done.
Ryan Burr will be handling NASCAR Now this week and Steve Byrnes and the SPEED crew will be returning on Friday for practice and qualifying coverage.
Chasing this issue has become a TV item since several ESPN commentators speculated that perhaps the drivers participated in the placement of the washers/magnets in the Nationwide Series cars after the race. That drew a strong reaction from Stewart on his Sirius radio show and a "no comment" from Logano's camp.
The Gibbs response has been consistent in saying that a very small group of employees were at fault for this incident. They were also very definite in their insistence that neither driver was involved and the incident took place after the drivers had exited the vehicles. In fact, JGR is going to appeal the sanctions imposed on the two drivers in question.
Dale Jarrett on Wednesday said on ESPN2 that he did not believe the drivers were involved, but could not offer any additional information. The reason is that none is available. Visions of a rogue crew member diving head-first into the two vehicles to stick a magnet on the firewall are swirling on the Internet.
Stewart offered the opinion that anyone trying to reach that spot with the cars configured for MIS would have to be lowered in head-first and it would still not be easy. His main point was that the effort made no sense since other Toyota's were being put on the dyno as well. He seemed mildly amused by the incident, but upset once again with ESPN specifically using his name when trying to assign blame.
As both ESPN2 and SPEED continue to follow this story, the specifics are bound to eventually emerge. For now, it seems to be a mystery as how crew members were allowed inside a vehicle headed for the dyno and given access to the throttle cable.
SPEED will be on-the-air from 10AM through 7:30PM on Friday and NASCAR Now is seen every day on ESPN2. Sooner or later, "magnet-gate" will be explained to the fans.
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64 comments:
I'm still convinced the magnets/washers were placed there during the race by some rogue JGR employee, but I imagine we will never know the whole story.
It is definitely one of the stranger stories in recent years. Watching the television coverage this weekend will be interesting.
Considering NASCAR Now pretty much glossed over any details today, I would expect the same during the race Friday night.
By Saturday night, all ESPN will talk about is The Chase and the story will be long forgotten.
If it were indeedy, a rogue employee, is there a time that a person is "alone with a car" after a race with nobody within eyesight???
If that's true, I can believe it was some maverick. If not, I think there are many person's who are shockingly ignorant.
Yet, Toyota did so well in the truck races tonight?
Which personally, I found kind of fitting...even though I am no fan of KB.
But sadly, like many things in NASCAR, do we ever really know "the rest of the story?"
Stay tuned!
:)
I was disappointed that NASCAR Now did not dig deeper than they did and it was pretty much what I expected and that was pure fluff. You cannot convince me that the drivers had no knowledge of what was going on and how can rogue employees just do this? I am not buying it and would like to see NASCAR investigate Gibbs racing further. I have a lot of respect for the Coach, but it sounds like to me that he needs to take a larger hands on role with his race teams and maybe no more of this will be going on and I applaud NASCAR for levying the penalties that they did.
When the story first broke, I was listening to Nascar on Sirius and everyone there pretty much inferred that it was the drivers who were the only logical ones to have put the spacers under the pedals. They explained that once a race was over, and cars are selected for post race inspection, crew members are not allowed anywhere near those cars. Nascar officials were the only ones who touch a car and move them to the inspection area. If this is truly the case, there are a few conclusions that can be drawn. One, the spacers were put in before the race, an inference that can be ignored because the two cars in question had very good races. Second, somehow a crew member did have access to the car after the race and placed the magnets in the car. And finally, if you want absurd conspiracies, a Nascar official put the shims in the car during post race inspection.
But I cannot understand why Joe Gibbs was being so cagey. If there's nothing to hide, why not be forthcoming? And why didn't Marty Smith be more forceful with his questioning? And as for Jamie Little, her "reaching out" comments sounded lame. You don't reach out to someone when you're working on such an explosive story. You work on the story and search out comments.
First of all NN needs to get timmy brewer out front & center to Apologize now!!! Secondly NN needs to report the entire list of who got what fine, punishment whatever now.
Its called reporting. They need to start. Pretend its a Junior story & do overkill.
After reading up on this NN has done a pi**poor job of covering this story. I personally hope no Drivers from any team speaks to them this weekend.
Jamie can "reach out" till her lips turn blue, not one should speak with her or any one else from espn, until timmy & or espn fully apologizes to both drivers.
As far as Coach not answering questions fully or being forthcoming - would you? Not if you're dealing w/espn & have an appeal to file.
timmy has a mouth that gets him in more trouble than anyone (including Tony) he should be off the air!!!!
Jo
No, I would not spill all to ESPN ...especially after reading what their crawl continues to imply.
My point was, Joe Gibbs looked mighty uncomfortable (and rightly so) and I might have waited before doing an in person interview for damage control...were I a seasoned vet like him.
I would've released a written statement and left it at that until I locked some doors and got to the truth. THEN I would've chosen my interviewer/station.
But I am glad he was quick to point out no driver involvement.
But it was painful to watch the Gibbs head honcho look so uncomfortable on camera. That's all I am saying.
And what if he had a clue who it was and was itching for a private meeting with said employee/s.
I do indeed find this to be one of the more bizarre stories I have heard of.
I am like everybody else VERY CURIOUS about this 'whodunit'. But what if it feels like such a betrayal to Joe or JD Gibbs...will they tell the fans or deal with it privately? They have the right to do so.
I wish Joe would've given a radio interview so i wouldn't have "felt" his discomfort so much.
Like let's be honest, is it the smallest, skinniest guy on the JGR team? Or was it a big burly guy that managed to pull this off?
Curious minds want to know.
:)
The more I hear about this and the more I hear about the nuances of the post-race procedures, the more I am thinking we are missing a big piece to this puzzle. Something is not adding here...it seems to me that seeing some crew memeber's legs sticking out of the driver's window would be a red flag to the nascar officials if they are indeed not supposed to touch a car before it goes to post race inspection.
It would make absolutely no sense in any way for those magnets to be there during the race as that would hinder the performance of the car on the track.
As Tony said and as anyone who has ever seen the inside of a race car would understand, it would be extremely difficult for the driver to place those magnets down there.
Something is missing and I am interested to know just what that something is.
I deleted one earlier comment because it might have come off differently than I intended.
How things read are not how things are "heard"
Not to mention how things are "seen".
:)
I'm not convinced that the drivers are 100% involved ... nor 100% not involved ...
From what I've heard, the top 3 finishers as well as select other cars are nabbed for the complete tear-down after the race ... Plus, if you're tagged for the Dyno testing ... that no one from the teams can touch the cars, orher than just rolling them to where the tear-down & dyno testing is located ...
That said ... The drivers could reach down as if to remove their fire/heat booties from their feet and then put something on their foot & get it up to the gas pedal ...
Like Waltrip with "Jet Fuel Gate" from last year ... All parties involved will continue to deny any & all knowledge of the incidents ...
Maybe SPEED could borrow the woman that does the "body language" analysis for Bill O'Reilly over at the sister network, Fox News Channel ...
I don't think we'll ever know the real truth. We never did with MWR and goo gate.
However, this incident does taint the entire JGR organizaton.
It's sad that someone had to do this to a repected team owner who appeared to have won races/championships without breaking the rules.
How rude of ESPN, etc to infer that the drivers had something to do with this. They have their reputations at stake. One thing I read is Tony said that he had the gas pedal to the floor. If he didn't know that there was something under it, would he be able to tell? I could try this experiment with my car, but I fear a ticket or worse. I hope this doesn't sound like a dumb question.
West Coast Diane said:
Not sure why, but I am just not getting too excited about this whole issue. Too many are way too into the conspiracy stuff. I will wait to see how it is handled in all the telecasts this weekend, especially the NW race. And I am curious what Larry Mac thinks. Wonder if it will come up on Trackside. Read DW's coments, he seemed perplexed why any one would take the chance, knowing the potential for penalties if you get caught. Haven't seen it mentioned by anyone else, but I read where Joe Gibbs suspended some of the personnel from JGR for the rest of the year. That should say something.
Having been a Nascar fan for at least 20 years, I chuckled when I first heard about Magnetgate. To me,it sounded like a few guys,frustrated with Nascar's tighter spacer, decided to mess with Nascar's heads. Certainly,some punishment was appropriate. So, I was shocked whith the fines and suspensions that I feel are way too excessive for this post-race offense. It hurts to see Coach Gibbs face all over the Media for this stunt. This is also sad for Nascar. Unless you're living under a rock, the Truck series is looking for a sponsor,Cup sponsors are leaving or cutting back,etc. My hope is that Nascar would devote as much zeal into fixing the many serious deficiencies with the COT and eliminating tire debacles experienced at Indy and Atlanta and dealing with race track improvements. As for Cup racing, this has been an up/down season with the fans on the receiving end of some really lousy races due to the COT,bad tires and weather. But God forbid that someone try to mess with the Gods of Nascar.
I heard last night on Nascar Now, Joe Gibbs said he knows who was responsible for this incident, they had admitted it and/or knew it was being done.
I think what we saw, was a man very disappointed and embarrassed in his organization. The man has a lot of integrity and has a reputation to uphold in the sport. He was hurt. I doubt Coach and JD will put up was kind of antics and those guys will be packing or have already gone from JGR.
This is my opinion, but I don't feel that it is necessary that the media or the fans need to know every little thing, about what is going on behind the walls of a race shop. Let the race teams take care of their in-house issues privately. We really don't need to know everything.
a coupla of thoughts:
1. drivers remove the fire shields from thier shoes AFTER they exit the car. even with the steering wheel removed, there simply isn't enough room for the driver to bend down and reach their feet -- or, for that matter, the accelerator pedal.
2. a crew member does go into the car post-race (and pre-inspection) to retrieve driver "stuff" i.e. helmet, gloves, heat shields which are tossed into the car after the race. he may also pick up debris that's fallen into the "passenger side" like water bottles or towels which were handed to the driver during the race.
3. a jgr crew member from the #18 team was suspended along with the engine tuners, crew chiefs and car chiefs. in addition, both drivers as well as all remaining members of both teams have been placed on probation by nascar until 31 december. seems like nascar cast a pretty wide net on this one.
4. jgr is not appealing any penalty except for the drivers' points b/c coach categorically denies any driver involvement. the fact that he's not appealing the penalties in general but is asking nascar to rescind the driver penalties is telling to me: he knows the drivers weren't involved and that whatever was done was done by someone(s) else. unfortunately for the drivers, it's a team sport and the team gets punished as a team, including drivers. nascar's been consistent about that much over the years.
i applaud coach and jd for apologizing, being stand-up about this whole mess. they could have gone to ground, refused to admit anything and just not face it. but since sunday morning, they've been facing the media and saying "our teams did it, we condemn it and we're going to take internal action as well."
where it's all gone to hell in a hand basket is, once again, with the nascar's obsession with witholding information and explaining what happened. clearly, coach and jd have received full explanations from nascar and, just as clearly, they have their own internal knowledge and have had since saturday night: sunday morning, jd gibbs stated that they had a good idea who on their teams was involved.
so, why the stonewall about how it happened? we're told it wasn't during the race, the size of the magnets/shims/spacers, and the intent. but not how the magnets got to the bottom of the pedal. why omit talking about that one critical piece of this?
espn has not handled this story well at all and that disappoints me. marty smith asked coach -- once -- about how it happened and then didn't pursue the non-answer he received. understandable, perhaps, given how folks in the garage area respect gibbs but not exactly reporting. as for jamie little's "reaching out": i'm not surprised she got nothing. after all, it was one (or more) or her colleagues who called out the drivers on this and, as many have pointed out, their ticker stills leads the viewer to the conclusion that it was the drivers. i can't imagine their representatives being inclined to hand espn anything in the way of information.
it could be a long weekend for espn but it may have a silver lining: if "the big guns" opt to not talk with espn on camera, maybe we'll finally have a chance to hear from some other drivers!
and tim brewer? you still owe an apology to the drivers AND the fans, dude.
I wouldn't bet that "all the facts will eventually come out", we still don't know all the facts from the Waltrip jet fuel incident.
What irks me is how JGR fans are so adamant about making excuses. Let me put it this way... If you'd be irate if the 48 team tried this (calling them cheaters, or worse) then you should feel the same way in this case. If you don't then it is because you are blind or are blatantly lieing.
If anyone thinks this is a major example of cheating they haven't been paying attention to NASCAR racing . Junior Johnson ( the Yellow Banana ) and Smokey Yunick ( 67 Chevelle ) built and raced complete cars that were illegal . Cheating is rampant in NASCAR . This year is no different than the last 60 years .
And i got news for you . Hard to believe in this age of " got ya " journalism , but we the fans have no right whatsoever to know the details of what really went on with the Gibbs cars . If it comes out , fine . But don't act like its our birth right to know the list of people involved and every move each of them made . It isn't . We've just been conditioned to think it is .
If it's found out that Tony and or
Joey had no involvement with the cheating,I would love to be their
Lawyer.
Tks. J.D. Ron Il.
You know , this incident does bring up an interesting point . The Hendrick teams have been caught cheating many , many times over the years . They hold all records in that department . Lots of fines and suspensions . The RCR guys have been caught several times . I guess i can remember most of the major teams getting caught . But i really don't remember the Gibbs teams ever being caught cheating . Certainly nothing big anyway . They don't do business that way . So they must have felt they were being pushed into taking a stand .
I'm certainly proud of the way J.D. and Coach Gibbs have handled this. It's not something they have ever tolerated or wanted, and they have been straightforward and will to take all the responsibility and blame for the idiotic actions of some misguided employees. Hats off to them for their response.
Tim Brewer needs to apologize to Logano and Stewart LIVE ON AIR this weekend. He went off half-cocked and blamed them, now he needs to be a man and apologize. That was the most irresponsible "reporting" I've seen from ESPN in a while.
If he doesn't, as someone said before me - I would love to be the attorney for the drivers.
JD
Maybe if NASCAR took away all the points and all the purses that a team had earned from the start of the season to the point of the infraction (including the driver's share) NASCAR would eliminate the constant bull that is played out almost every week. NASCAR,s decision making process falls under the catagory of "detrimental to racing". If NASCAR controlled the Olympics, Phelps would now have open spacers installed between his fingers and toes to improve the competition.
I don't see how people can be so quick to dismiss the possibility the magnets were in place during the race. They obviously were designed to clip just a few hp so it is unlikely they could hurriedly be put in place accurately.
If the JGR engines (which had been cut from around 632 to 618 hp according to jayski) had been re-engineered back up to 625 hp or so they may have wanted some throttle limitations to keep them around 618 for another race or so until NASCAR stopped constant dyno testing.
If they were in place during the race it removes any mystery about how they were installed without the inspectors noticing after the race.
It is a shame ESPN is doing such a poor job of covering the issue, but at least they have a daily show unlike another network who claims to be a racing network.
Come on, folks, these Tv epople aren't actual reporters. they're fans who get paid to talk about the sport.
Like most sports 'reporters,' they're not going to ask hard questions that might upset their friends.
Expecting anything more is just unrealistic. Actual journalists would not be satisfied with the answer they've gotten and would probe more--but these guys want this to go away so they don't have to ask embarrassing questions of the people they like.
JGR and the employees involved will take their punishments and get over this in a very painful way I'm sure.
However as far as blaming the drivers, personally I would like to see Tim Brewer climb into his cut away car this weekend and show us how it was done. And if he can't, he should apologize to the two drivers whose reputations he has "helped" tarnish by his allegations.
Glad to hear JGR is going to appeal the probation, I hadnt heard about the points appeal.
I hadnt thought of the lawyer thing, that would be awesome.
I do believe sometimes the cheating is done without the owner's knowledge, either because the evildoer wants to play the "ask forgiveness, not permission" card or because they want the owner to legitimately be able to say he did not know anything was done to the car.
In both this case and the MWR case, I think this is what happened.
Doesn't make it right, of course, and it sure does put the owner in a bad spot. In both this case and the MWR case, the type of cheating done was so obvious that I can't believe and owner would go for it--they would have known they were going to get caught.
If he doesn't, as someone said before me - I would love to be the attorney for the drivers.
You'd have a tough row to hoe if you were. The drivers are public figures. Commentary like what we've heard against their actions is protected by law.
here is s theory that I haven't seen put forth yet. No one saw the device being placed in the car because it was already there. They ran the race with it.
I know, but think about it. You wouldn't need more that a 4-5% of a horse power drop to have the dyno test come out the way you want it and the cars have almost been unbeatable anyway.
You put it in after pre race inspection and pull it out after the dyno.
I'll bet the rat in the hat knows
Guys, the cars were cheated up after the race, plain and simple. The person that placed the magnets was likely the "non-titled" crewmember from the 18 team. Why else suspend someone that deep in the team?
Why is NASCAR being tight-lipped about how exactly the magnets were put in place? Because it happened AFTER the race when the cars were supposed to be impounded and under NASCAR control.
Robin Pemberton, VP of competition for NASCAR, told ESPN that there was no way the spacers could have been added after the race was over.
One or more inspectors are assigned to the car on pit road immediately following the race. The inspectors take control of the car and push it to the dyno testing area. There is no way, he said, that a team member would have access to the car to add the spacers.
Using Pemberton's comments as "the out", the Gibbs organization could have claimed the spacers were in place during the race and used as throttle stops as a means to provide more forward bite off the corners. Afterall, every team in the garage complained all weekend about being loose.
But because the Gibbs owners and managers are stand-up people, they chose to be honest and claim responsibility for trying to subvert the rules. Even though Pemberton gave them an out, they chose truth over cover-up.
Can you imagine what the story would have been had it involved a Roush, Hendrick or Childress team?
Anyone here who can't imagine Hendrick or Jack Roush holding a press conference claiming the spacers were in place all along raise their hands. (Actually, I can imagine Jack claiming it to be sabotage and the evil Toyota empire was likely behind it.)
The disturbing part about all this is with the Gibbs admission comes the realization that the cars CAN be tampered with after the race.
If the Gibbs team can do it, how many others that we know are prone to cheating have tried and succeeded?
This incident doesn't just cast a cloud over the Gibbs success this year. It has far more reaching implications.
Now we have to wonder how many cheated up cars have been on the track and then "fixed" after the race prior to inspection.
That is PRECISLY what NASCAR fears the fans will come to realize.
I think, conidering what machinations it would take to install the magnets and spacers, we have to conlcude that they were placed before the arec ever started, when someone had time to get into the car and mess around without anyone noticing or caring.
If you've ever been around a car that's going to be inspected after a race, you know there's just not much time for a person to crawl inside and change things without someone becoming suspicious.
My bet is that the JGR employees that were involved are the 7 employees that were indefinitely suspended from NASCAR.
First it pains me that JGR is now lumped with all the other repetitive cheats. This is the 1st time in 17 years so its not like this is business as usual ( like Knaus & co.)
For those who think a driver can simply reach down as if to remove a fire shoe, well you haven't been to a track lately & looked inside the "car" running in the Cup series. Between the new bigger safer seat, and the lack of space in there, to suggest a driver could execute the maneuver is interesting, to suggest chubby Tony could do so is laughable.
Besides the NA$CAR officials keep everyone away post race, except the crewman who fetches stuff (as described in other posts here)out of the car and the times we watched that ( with binoculars) the official was right there watching. Hmmm...
And to those who think NA$CAR will tell the whole story -
nope this is NA$CAR & they don't tell us nothin' - remember MWR at Daytona?
The part I find amazing, is the teams knew Toyos were under scrutiny, and did this anyway, talk about dumb! This kind of cheating is usually executed with as few people knowing as possible. So it doesn't get out.
Anon @4:44 I agree there are a whole lot of much more "creative" stories from the earlier days than "Magnegate" & NA$CAR has way bigger problems,but, this distracts from those for a bit.
And they are hoping we will forget.
And espn will.
And timmy still owes apologies to the drivers!
First it pains me that JGR is now lumped with all the other repetitive cheats. This is the 1st time in 17 years so its not like this is business as usual ( like Knaus & co.)
First time they've been caught, anyway.
JD,
Sorry if this has been asked, but is the picture on this post of the actual culprits?
spicoli--the difference is that Chad is a KNOWN cheater Coach is not. If anyone on Coach's teams were being busted every other race I could see the hypocrisy claims.
I do believe that JGR cheated. But what worries me is where was Nascar. If these tests are so crucial then NOONE should be around the cars except Nascar officials and these Nascar officials should be watching very very closely. Obviously that was not the case since not 1 but 2 cars were compromised. I would love to hear how Nascar is going to change their system to better secure these vehicles so that cars aren't compromised again. It doesn't take a genius to know that a rogue employee or a competitor could compromise a car (if it hasn't already been done ) when Nascar is not looking.
Now to the espn "analysts". I suggest that before you "analyze" to million of viewers you get to know the facts first. Since knowing the facts hasn't been an espn forte of late I would hope that an apology to the drivers you slammed would be forthcoming this weekend.
Geez,
Those are just some magnetized washers that fit the bill. Love to see what the real thing looks like.
JD
gymmie,
Some say they are all cheating to lesser or greater degrees. I would agree. The ones labeled cheaters are the one's that got caught. I think the Gibbs' are probably less inclined to go that route compared to some others but no way do I think they are above it. For those with a short memory, remember that Tony had a car that had been radically altered and resulted in it being confiscated (back in 2005?).
See you back over at the C&J Journal -soon I hope ;)
OK here goes. First off I don't think I have the right to know as a NASCAR fan who actually put the washers on, or who thought it up, or who did the math to determine what size of washer to use. If I do something really stupid I wouldn't my boss announcing it on National TV. All I need is that JGR will handle it. JD/Coach have already said there will be fines and suspensions thru JGR not just NASCAR. Now would I like to know how they accomplished this feat absolutely; (the pictures in my head are pretty funny) but I won't start kicking or screaming if it never happens. I'm glad Marty didn't push coach to name names and I think the reason he was willing to talk to him as all was because he knew he would be treated with respect.
Since NASCAR feels this was as bad as the MWR fuel fiasco (remember this is the NW series and there is a lot less money so the penalties are usually not as significant) it should be handled the same way. Eventually a few people were let go by MWR and presumed to be the culprits or scapegoats depending on your point of view, I don't know if they ever got another job in the field and again not something I should know as a fan. The drivers that were named by ESPN as the cheaters need to be exonerated they were long gone when this stupid act was done. I know some posters think the washers were in the car, and they may have been but I really don't think they were on the throttle, perhaps hidden under the seat or something.
spicoli, thanks for bringing that up, I was about to. To act as if JGR is pure as the driven snow when they had a car so illegal it was confiscated by NASCAR & roped off in the garage as a naughty example...that's just naive. They weren't fined (I don't think) only because it was caught in PRE race inspection. I believe they all push the limits. I suspect there are lesser events we never even hear about.
I find it interesting everyone hunting for Tim's head...has anyone *disproved* what he said? I'm not saying he's right, I'm just saying there's no evidence SO FAR we've been made aware of that would say that's not possible. Robin says no one from the team touches the cars after the driver gets out. JGR says it was someone on the team and not the drivers even though Robin says that's not possible. So...someone is either lying or mistaken, because it has to be one or the other, or done beforehand, which would seem unlikely. Now I'm wondering if cameras are going to follow the cars around after they get picked for the dyno or post inspection.
And as for us not having the right to know--this is a public event that people pay money to see. If it isn't ejudicated fairly, that could be considered fraud.
The drivers that were named by ESPN as the cheaters need to be exonerated they were long gone when this stupid act was done.
You hope. You have no way to actually know this, of course.
"Robin says no one from the team touches the cars after the driver gets out"
That is not an accurate statement. How does the car get to the area where NASCAR does the post race inspection? Crew members push it there. How does the cat get to the area where NASCAR was doing the post-inspection Dyno test? Crew members push the car there. A crew member can also retrieve the driver helmet and gloves.
anonymous said...
"The drivers that were named by ESPN as the cheaters need to be exonerated they were long gone when this stupid act was done.
You hope. You have no way to actually know this, of course."
i happen to believe the drivers had nothing to do with it. however, my anger at brewer is based on his naming the drivers and stating that they had to have done it, that there was no other way for it to have happened. he never spoke with the drivers, he never considered any other possibility, he just threw both logano and stewart out there as the offenders on national tv with absolutely no evidence of their involvement. his comment came very early in the whole story when all the information was still being developed. but he just condemned the drivers without pause. and that is, to me, very wrong.
stewart's done some incredibly stupid stuff in all his years of racing but this is just simply out of character for him in a very big way. and i can't believe that young mr logano would be involved either. just my opinion.
as for pemberton's statement that no one from the crew touches the car pre-inspection: well, i've watched that process happen thru binoculars when i've been at races and i can state that, from what i've seen at both dover and pocono, pemberton's statement is not accurate. there is always a crew member who reaches far into the car to retrieve the driver helmet, heat shields and gloves. at dover, i watched a crew member pretty much climb into matt kenseth's car prior to the car being rolled into post-race inspection: he was in the car way past his waist with the nascar inspector standing beside the car (apparently something had fallen off the seat and down to the floor of the car.) kenseth finished second to burton and there was no doubt the #17 was going to be inspected.
my point is: if i can see it happening from the stands after races at two different tracks across several years, i can easily believe it happened at the n'wide race at michigan. i've seen it, i know it happens and pemberton's flat statement that it isn't possible is just not that accurate in my experience.
...if Robin is wrong in what he said (I misstated that, what he said was simply they couldn't have been put in post race; I meant no one gets IN the cars, not that they don't touch them...)....well, is someone from NASCAR standing there to make sure team members don't actually get *into* the cars? Remember the NASCAR Confidential where the official tells the team they can't open the hood, and someone tries too-she says 'you don't listen very well do you?' In that case, she has apparently been assigned to them at that moment. If there's an official(s) on the 18 & 20 in that N-wide race, someone needs to get Robin to admit that it's possible the official didn't do his/her job, or else...I don't know, whatever scenario there might be, as red said, pretending to retrieve items or something, which takes the drivers off the hook. I get that apparently Tim is saying it wouldn't be as easy as just 'slipping' it in. And if the media are the only ones trying to 'keep it honest' then someone should be calling Robin out for claiming it's impossible, because that throws suspicion on the drivers. I've never watched post race. I'm too busy booking for the exit....I'm just seeing a difference in claims here. And if the media doesn't pursue it, no one else will. Generally, I think we're probably making more of this than we should, but it just irks some of us not to be able to get to the truth. Probably frustration from years at NASCAR keeping its secrets. In general, it seems hard to believe that Tony or Joey (particularly) would have been asked to do this.
I find many strange things have happened in NASCAR lately . Going back to MWR last year at Daytona; Carl Edwards (Roush Fenway Racing); with the lid coming off in the back of the car-loosing points; and now JGR and the magnets. I'm sure other things are happening in all levels. THe announcers need watch how they say things and not accuse people until all information is in. NASCAR or owners also need make fans aware of what is happening and who did what, so we know when these mysteries are resolved
I have no doubt that Tony Stewart had nothing to do with placing the magnets under the gas pedal. Don't forget that Tony is a Chevy car owner. While the team will still operate as Haas CNC this season, Tony is technically part owner of Stewart-Haas Racing right now. Plus, all of the Tony Stewart Racing teams run CHevy engines.
Thus, why would Tony want to help a Toyota team cheat on an engine dyno test? I doubt that JGR would want a CHEVY car owner to know that they were cheating during the engine dyno test!
So far it would appear that most of the media is more interested in huffing, puffing, speculating and pontificating than in trying to get all the facts out - maybe because they can keep the story alive until something better comes along as long as all the facts are not out on the table.
@spicoli--yes that's definitely true :). As Pastor would say for those of us who haven't been to jail yet it's only because we haven't been caught. Yes I almost gave that example about what happened here in TX but erased it with that X measuruement on the back window. Since GIMF I doubled checked as I thought it was 2K4, but it was 2K3. Yes I miss the C&J site, it's not the same :(. Hopefully ADB can get things back working again. I miss my friends there even though some are here too :)
Thus, why would Tony want to help a Toyota team cheat on an engine dyno test? I doubt that JGR would want a CHEVY car owner to know that they were cheating during the engine dyno test!
August 21, 2008 6:40 PM
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Exactly Anon!!
And there was still no apology today on NN.
Maybe they should send a real reporter!
Bob 8828 said...
Maybe they should send a real reporter!
August 21, 2008 7:36 PM
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Well why do that!?! The espn is way easier.
Or as I stated in an earlier post - they could pretend its related to Junior. That would get all the facts out.
Anonymous said...
I have no doubt that Tony Stewart had nothing to do with placing the magnets under the gas pedal. Don't forget that Tony is a Chevy car owner. While the team will still operate as Haas CNC this season, Tony is technically part owner of Stewart-Haas Racing right now. Plus, all of the Tony Stewart Racing teams run CHevy engines.
Thus, why would Tony want to help a Toyota team cheat on an engine dyno test? I doubt that JGR would want a CHEVY car owner to know that they were cheating during the engine dyno test!
August 21, 2008 6:40 PM
Wow, I see it just the 180 degrees different. Tony was in on it with the crew members, to put toyota in a bad light. Watch how many of the crew people end up on Tony's team. Only way he can get JGR people is if they are fired from the team. He can go out and buy from other teams, but not JGR.
Conspiracy theorists abound.
I woulld hope that all that respect for Joe Gibbs that Tony is ALWAYS talking about would prohibit him from doing something as devious as what anon suggests.
According to numerous reports I've heard, not only on ESPN, but from other outlets, Nascar OFFICIALS are the ones who push the car to the dyno test, and a Nascar official, the same one assigned to the car in the pits, is with the car when it's taken for inspection. With that knowledge, how would a crew member be able to get inside the cockpit of the car and put the magnets behind the pedal? With the evil eye of Nascar with the car at all times, it would be nearly impossible.
the more I read, the more I get confused about the timing of the placement of magnets?
I mean if the car is basically guarded after the race....could they have raced with these things under the throttle?
Curiouser and curiouser (sp)
Been to several races at Daytona, working as a FireFighter for the speedway. Listened in on Nascars channel.
A few things to consider;
1) None of the teams know which cars are going to the dyno until the end of the race. As the cars are on thecool down lap they (Nascar) Call out the car numbers going to the dyno.
2)From the time the cars make it to pit road they have Nascar officals assigned to the cars. They never leave the cars and usally two officals are present.
3) Nascar will normally tear down the first place car to the fifth place car. On the last lap they call out a wild card from the back of the pack. Ive seen them tear down the last place finishing car.
So I dont believe anybody could have done anything after the race.
Thought this was a TV blog. All the speculation and in some cases, statements of fact, get us no where. What is relevant for this blog is how is TV handling this story? Conspiracy theorists should post elsewhere. IMHO.
It's relevant because the guys on TV are supposed to be asking the right questions (see the title of JD's piece) and that is apparently not happening. They're also not suppose to accuse people of guilt without having some kind of evidence, which is what some are upset about.
I saw this posted on another website and thought that it was interesting:
Listening to Moody this afternoon and the sports guy from yahoo said something about theres only 2guys that could have done this. The crew guy or the driver. And it would have been too obvious for the crew guy to reach in there. Moody replies that the crew guy is responsible for grabbing the helmet, the gloves and anything else left behind like water bottles etc. He was told that it took the crew guy a little too long to do that, and THAT is what tipped off the officials suspicion.
Then he went on to say "Are you telling me that Tony Stewart was driving down pit road, removing his helmet, his gloves, his hans device, undoing his seatbelts, taking off his steering wheel and reaching down to slide that thing in? Have you seen him? My apologies to Tony Stewart but it would be dificult or near impossible. God bless Tony and all rotund guys everywhere but a lot of people would pay good money to see that attempt, it would be a Humpy Wheeler side show."
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