Sunday, October 25, 2009

Live Blogging The Sprint Cup Series From Martinsville, VA (1PM - ABC)


Update: We are going to leave this post open for your post-race comments. Just click on the comments button below. Thanks fans!

Here we go with a very big challenge for the NASCAR on ESPN production team. The Cup race is going head-to-head with NFL football and it is going to be a tough challenge.

Allen Bestwick will anchor a thirty-minute version of NASCAR Countdown beginning at 1PM ET. Rusty Wallace and Brad Daugherty will be with Bestwick in the Infield Pit Center. Pit reporters are Shannon Spake, Jamie Little, Vince Welch and Dave Burns. Tim Brewer is in the Tech Garage.

While Jimmie Johnson is the big story, there has been a lot of NASCAR news during the week that involves changes in personnel and teams. It should be interesting to watch what topics and interviews are selected for the pre-race show.

Jerry Punch has to call the action on a very long day at a very short track. That recipe has not proven to be a good one where ESPN is concerned. Punch will no doubt be assisted very actively by Dale Jarrett and Andy Petree as the race goes on.

Action happens fast at this track as the straights are quick and cars side-by-side though the flat corners almost always results in some rubbing. The ESPN team has struggled with both caution and green flag pitstops. This is not a good place to have that happen.

The race off pit road may well wind-up deciding the event and missing the action for full-screen coverage of only one car is going to make the TV team pay a high price. ESPN needs to hold the triple-split all the way through the caution flag stops and put all green flag stops in a double video box so the race can be seen.

There is real potential for things to get confused very quickly on TV as ESPN keeps the spotlight on the Chase drivers regardless of what is happening on the track. This should be a fascinating race to watch from a TV perspective.

We welcome your comments on the race. To add your opinion, just click on the comments button below. This is a family-friendly website, please keep that in mind when posting. Thanks for stopping by.

503 comments:

1 – 200 of 503   Newer›   Newest»
West Coast Diane said...

Once again I will be using HotPass, even though my main guy isn't one of them and he has a pretty decent starting spot.

The ESPN combo just isn't working and never will. Another PxP guy is the only chance DJ and AP will ever have to improve their skills.

Daly Planet Editor said...

Hey all, any start and parks today?

Beating A Dead Horse said...

All but 12 are Start and Parks in the Chase, right?

Dot said...

@ dead horse, too funny.

Delco said...

JD, we'll never know about em. I love the way Marty Reid calls out the S&Pr's.

Dot said...

Where's Martin V or b61? They always provide the S&P info.

Bet Hamlin wishes the S&Ps were at last week's race.

Daly Planet Editor said...

Expect lots of JJ lovin!

Delco said...

Gawd....more "Bull Durham" interviews.....arrrgggg!!!!!

Dot said...

JJ is the script today. What happens if he has a bad race?

Daly Planet Editor said...

Going to replay NN feature with Hendrick DVD footage.

Newracefan said...

That's the biggest drawback to watching NN and on race day too many repeats on countdown, Oh well guess I'll throw in that last load of laundry. Anyone think Rusty sounds a nasel as in sick.

OK this is getting silly now I am a huge JJ fan but there are other guys in this race.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

I hope MRN is up on the wheel today.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

Will we see this feature again during green flag racing today, too?

Jonathan said...

Martinsville here we go!!!!!

Gymmie said...

LOL @dead horse

@Dot--If he did they'd find a way to "will" a miracle and have him magically win from a zillion laps down

Dot said...

Has any death stopped any team/organization from racing? I think Alan Kulwicki is the only one I can think of.

Anonymous said...

what kind of hair cut does Jeff Gordons wife have yuck looks like a man lol

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Becky said...

ESPN needs to do fewer taped/produced segments during the pre-race shows and do more driver interviews.

Gymmie said...

Did Brad leave any hot dogs for everyone else :p

David said...

37, 71, 66, 64, 36, 87, 09 all known start and parks

Daly Planet Editor said...

Wow, that is a lot of S&P cars.

6p010535e43b89970c said...

Should've kept it on NBC with the Rostelecom Cup ice skating from Moscow ...

Just watched our friend's granddaughter win the silver medal ... She's peaking at the right time for the Olympics ...


Then I made the mistake of changing to ABC ... and saw the end of THAT plane crash piece ...

Newracefan said...

Was that Bob D's brother in that ESPN hot dog piece? The name and the count eaten seems to match up. He had a 1 car shirt on does he work for the team?

itsonlyrockandroll said...

An event of CATACLYSMIC importance -- happened Saturday on
the telecast anchored by Marty Reed:
Marty ACUTALLY said " Listen to the engines "( without the voice over from the announcers ) !!!
YES ! Finally human history was
changed forever. Imagine if the
folks in the booth would continue
to do THAT !!!
But We know it wont ever happen again ! As for now " Marty you rock. "

David said...

Wow, quick pre-race

Sophia said...

seems to be starting anthem on higher notes than i'd figure...will see

Anonymous said...

ABC just snuck in their "MW cleared of charges" reference in under the wire there. Nice.
- RAEckart from Texas-

Andrew said...

Hey all! How's it been so far?

itsonlyrockandroll said...

The prayer : " In honor the one
who WAS -- IS AND will be again "
Sounds like Jesus is acutally going to return ....
Amen

Sophia said...

Wow. pulled it off, excellent harmony (except in one brief part but that happens with difficult song sometimes)
NICE to see the fly over...they paused the song towards the end as if they were waiting.

don't know if that was the plan but it worked out well. :) Great job

Daly Planet Editor said...

hey Andrew. Normal JJ lovefest with some other features.

Really need to turn it up a bit.

JD

Sophia said...

How did I miss the MW comment? granted I'm not feeling well, & still in my jammies...but wow, I didn't hear MW mentioned on TV!

This is it, I can not multitask very well /p

Newracefan said...

Anthem wasn't too bad, now if I can just stop trying to FF through the commercials since I'm live for the first time since last weeks race. A cup race is the only thing I do real time and that's because of the multitasking.

6p010535e43b89970c said...

Dot - I put Jimmie as the active driver on all four of my Yahoo fantasy racing teams ...

Either I'm gonna score real big in the points ... Or Jimmie's gonna go out in a spectacular fashion ...


Gymmie - Did you activate Jimmie on all of your teams ?? LOL

PammH said...

It's wasn't tradtional, but I like it alot. Sophia you have DM on tweet from me.

Sally said...

I'm steeling myself for a 'chasers only' broadcast again today. You would think that, as little enthusiasm as the fans are exhibiting for the entire chase thing, and JJ burnout, they would benefit from covering more cars during their broadcast, thus making more fans happy..

Sally said...

Wow. Looking out the window, when I went to Martinsville that entire hillside behind the backstretch was packed with campers.

bevo said...

I'm giving ESPN one hour to hold my attention today

Sally said...

I gathered up all my mending to do while the race is on.

Gymmie said...

@Sophia--it was in the Jayski News and Notes. Short and to the point basically that he had an incident with a motorcycle rider. No chatting no analysis about it.

@Seattle--yup :) my jinxing job is done :)

Sally said...

Has the 'in race reporter' become the broadcast version of being on the cover of Sports Illustrated?

bevo said...

Couldn't they talk to Hamlin and Ford earlier and get rid of the in-car reporter thing?

Dot said...

@ Tia, good luck. No hate for the 48, just too much coverage.

Diva, oops I mean Denny has the curse today.

rich said...

Howdy folks, wow, short prerace I guess, I wasn't planning on getting here until the hour. I would have missed the start.
I wil be watching on Hotpass today and bouncing back to ABC when Hotpass goes to commercial. And watching DP and Twitter.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

That's tape on that wall, Ms. Smurf.

6p010535e43b89970c said...

Why does it sound like "espn deported" when they say "espn desportes" ?? LOL

bevo said...

MRN on HotPass again today.

red said...

comcast here outside philly just staggered big time on the green flag lap! hope THAT clears up!!

itsonlyrockandroll said...

Alwawys good to hear the folks
in the booth .. during the first lap.. Simply perfect isnt it...
When the engines are roaring...
Nascar doesnt have one clue and
ESPN doesnt have the other one

red said...

anyone else on comcast having video/audio issues?

Daly Planet Editor said...

Weird early accident huh?

Daly Planet Editor said...

No Comcast problems in S. Florida.

Sally said...

Is it going to be THAT kind of race?

jane said...

MRN on local radio today. Surprisingly, the signal's significantly better compared to the past few weeks.

bevo said...

Much better balance on MRN audio and driver radio on Stewart channel today. Synched up with video too today. Great job by DirecTV.

Newracefan said...

Red it's you I'm fine here. Have a cat who likes to play with the cables? Have already had to replace them once

red said...

can't get accustomed to seeing national guard and the #24 together on the car: i keep expecting it to be the 88! even the 24 paint scheme adds to my confusion.

Anonymous said...

hmm Jerry Punch seems excited.

red said...

@nrf: thanks for the info: i was waiting to hear if it was just me before dinking with the cables on commercial break. cats don't mess w/them but the golden keeps pushing his ball under there and then has to scratch around to get it out so i'm guessing you're right!

pretty sure i'm not going to be able to find the #20 car today either: looking for range but seeing white.

rich said...

Red, this crappy economy has caused many new/shared sponsorships and thus new paint jobs this year. Very confusing to an old guy

Sally said...

At least twice now, the camera has been following a group, someone starts to pass, and they switch cameras! HEL-LO?

itsonlyrockandroll said...

Isn't it Great. The announcers have not shut the he** up since the
start of the race. Not one milisecond.
It is beyond belief.And as Dale
says "" it is EXXX SPEICALLY HARD
TO SHUT UP "" You should know
Dale you never shut up.

Newracefan said...

Red I feel your pain I kept getting the 24 and 48 confused at California.

Daly Planet Editor said...

Be interesting to see how they handle a Jr. vs. JJ fight for the lead.

Sophia said...

uno momento por favor!
I tried to turn on SAP, didn't work.

Hit another button and turned all remote controls into SPANISH...sigh. Could not get it re-Englished. Thankfully my room mate fixed it. He speaks NO Spanish.. I know very little Spanish and very little French.

The paint schemes confuse me as well...I didn't see Montoya a few weeks ago when he switched from Target to that dark car.
I am easily confused by the plethora of scheme changes.

I am getting nervous about the camera work in this race.

That's all I am saying. :)

Beating A Dead Horse said...

Sally said...

At least twice now, the camera has been following a group, someone starts to pass, and they switch cameras! HEL-LO?
October 25, 2009 1:58 PM

That is my Major Beef with all the TV Partners. The truck is not into passing.

Anonymous said...

Why dont I just keep posting until
these idiot morons decide to shut up...Ooops that would blow the
band width.

Andrew said...

No Comcast problems in W. Florida either.

The booth is quite excited today! Makes a nice change. I hope it lasts.

ri88girl said...

@red, I can never find the 88 on the track now, so I look to see which of the red cars is the closest and look for it instead! why couldn't Jr's hood be white that I could find?

red said...

and now i'm finally seeing the #18 in those muted halloween colors today.

@sally: great observation! i was actually "frankly discussing" just that point at the tv just now!

Andrew said...

@JD - They'll cheer for JJ. If it were Fox, they'd cheer for Junior. If it were TNT, we'd get a fantastic play-by-play.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

Anon 2:00

The Babbling in the Booth. Heh. There is a self-help group for compulsive talkers. It seems to help, but the meetings last forever.

jane said...

Did MRN say Mark Martin was 2nd and 4th?

Newracefan said...

37 64 36 66 OFF

Daly Planet Editor said...

This is going to be interesting....

Andrew said...

ESPN, we would like to see entire pit stops, please.

Daly Planet Editor said...

Single car shots = fail

Vicky D said...

Back from the Y and just noticed Rusty is still talking. I wonder if he slept at all or stayed awake till today's race. Yak yak yak, blah blah blah.

Dot said...

Damage on the 11. The curse strikes.

Newracefan said...

So did anyone understand what just happened on those pit stops. What happened to triple pits and race off pit road anyway?

Beating A Dead Horse said...

We qualify for the entire pitstop only under green and only fullscreen.

Sally said...

How long will it take them to reset the field?

6p010535e43b89970c said...

Dot - I'm surprised they didn't put the whammy on Jimmie

red said...

mcgrew says damage on the 88 shouldn't be an issue.

Andrew said...

That shot was less than useless - could not barely the contact between Hamlin and Junior and it was so far right I doubt you could see it in SD at all.

Anonymous said...

2 quick questions:
1. when did hotpass switch from espn to mrn and why?
2. was there any mention of the Griese comments about JPM today on any of the shows, etc...? (what an a$$ - i hope he calls him personally to apologize.)

Andrew said...

Re: my last post - take out the "not". Yay proofreading!

Beating A Dead Horse said...

Sally, all afternoon-all afternoon.

Sally said...

Missing the action again. Not even a replay?

Daly Planet Editor said...

1- long time ago this season. Before the Chase.

2 - Griese apologized on the game telecast, called Montoya, all is OK.

Dot said...

@ Andrew, I saw nothing except Hamlin leaving his pit.

Daly Planet Editor said...

Here we go, random tight shots...

6p010535e43b89970c said...

Shannon didn't read the script ... LOL

Sally said...

A serious oversight on a short track especially. There has to be a lot of action going on...but not for those of us watching on TV.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

We have left Martinsville and are using stock footage exclusively.

The Truck

Beating A Dead Horse said...

We don't have time for racing, we have stories to tell.

The Truck

red said...

sounds like the creeping flu crud has officially hit the garage area. happens each and every year!

Daly Planet Editor said...

Punch is done, the Brent music is back, no one at ESPN cares. What the heck is going on???

Newracefan said...

71 and 87 also off for a total of 6. May be all unless the 09 is parting this week too

Beating A Dead Horse said...

No one has mentioned JPM marching to the front, have they?

Sophia said...

Tight shots may show off HD but causes me to turn off TV.

Tight shots/single car/in car cams/bumper shots equals CHEATING the viewers of racing.

I'm off of BSPN PU for now.

p.s. HDepot we are so sick of Logano's commercial. You could not tweak a variation for a second one??

Vicky D said...

Dead Horse - yeah the truck says to the booth guys - stick with the script! JJ!!!!! All the time.

red said...

i think i can safely say this is the earliest that the wheels have come off the espn broadcast.

pit stops a major miss
no reset of the field
replay of pit road contact that showed . . . nothing
"watching jimmie johnson lead . . . "

is there no racing happening on this classic short track?

will no one rid me of these troublesome broadcasters?!?

ri88girl said...

didn't you see what BADH said? the truck left already...

David said...

briefly jd, briefly

Dot said...

Caution anyone?

David said...

All S&P's are off except Marlin. Sterling may try to run all day since this place is close to home...

Phoenix Racing is weird about their start and park strategy

Beating A Dead Horse said...

DJ, what is really frustrating is trying to watch a race through the telecast.

dara2K said...

Has anyone EVER heard anybody refer to Jimmie Johnson as "Mr. Martinsville"??? Really? Really? I just can't....

ri88girl said...

Dot wins

David said...

caution, someone cut a tire

red said...

ok, which one of you called jimmie johnson "mister martinsville"? no one? yeah, that's whati thought.

not to dr punch: wasn'tus fans. that leaves you guys for making up na silly nickname like "mister martinsville."

and dale's bad luck continues: flat right front & a spin but he didn't hit the wall.

Sally said...

Guess who...Junior! The misery continues.

ri88girl said...

something happened to the 88 what was it

Beating A Dead Horse said...

I'm going to the fridge while ESPN resets the field. Hahahahah. Brb.

red said...

(sorry for those typos: was listening to mrn and actually became excited about the race!)

Dot said...

Really? A zoom shot showing nothing?

PammH said...

wth kind of replay of Jr's tire blow out is that? from the view of the marbles????

ri88girl said...

when they came out of commercial did they ever SAY the caution was out? I saw a pit stop, but no one said the yellow was out I heard on scanner

Anonymous said...

update: 9 car got a speeding panelty on pit road.

Dot said...

Marcos the LD.

Daly Planet Editor said...

Punch is trying with all his might not to say paperclip today.

Daly Planet Editor said...

Punch is trying with all his might not to say paperclip today.

dara2K said...

Poor Jr!! He still is cute though...Even with his miserable luck! If he didn't have bad luck, he wouldn't have any luck..

Beating A Dead Horse said...

How did that field reset go?

Beating A Dead Horse said...

I vote for Hermie in that role.

bevo said...

OK I lied. Said I'd give ESPN an hour - I'm out after 45 minutes. I'll listen to MRN while I watch halftime highlights

Sally said...

No 'update' on how many laps Jr lost? Real helpful.

Newracefan said...

NOOOOOOO it's TB. Green flag just after pit stops not a good time for the Tech Center but if you must PUT IT IN THE SMALL BOX!

Vicky D said...

TB showing us his manicure and rings.

Newracefan said...

Sally still on lead lap in 33

Sally said...

No intervals on the crawl...no idea wh is on the lead lap, laps down......ARRRRGH!

itsonlyrockandroll said...

Simply put for JABBBBBBER JARRRET..
SHUT UP ;.

Sophia said...

ok turned the TV BACK on after Jr incident. The replay from ESPN PU can't even SHOW us the blown tire? we get ground camera and the car went OFF my screen?

back to Barney & the boys...might go sit in the yard and look at gorgeous trees...

ESPN camera work is the KEY to PLUMMETING ratings imo.

Now I'm really off for good.

David said...

Montoya asks whats wrong with Gordon

Driving really hard today Juan is

Sally said...

@ NRF...thanks. Glad someone is keeping track, since TV won't.

red said...

@sally: as near as i can tell, the 88 actually did not lose a lap there, at least according to the 2 leaderboards i'm running right now. he's in 33rd: first car a lap down is around 37th.

rich said...

24 just said 42 has the best car out here but doesn't know what to do with it

David said...

Pattie trying to calm his driver down, reminding him to not knock the fenders in and to keep the brakes on the car

David said...

Looks like Sterling is going the distance today

red said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Speaking of Idiots: The producer and director of the telecast :

running the audio from Gordo :
" I am really PISSSED " Nice touch

PammH said...

I take it TV was talking about JPM abit, since all we saw was his car going around. Could this coverage get much worse??

Vicky D said...

I didn't like that comment from Jeff on tv, but I'm more mad at the truck guys for doing it.

I miss good race telecasts.... said...

I can't remember the last time I actually saw an accident or caution flag that was not on a replay. I would swear that ESPN hasn't showed a live one in weeks. Great commercials though, ohh wait, I was watching football during them so I really don't know what they were, good thing they showed them though.

Someone post and let me know if there is a good replay to watch, I am going to watch the football halftime shows, ESPN race coverage just makes it unbearable to watch.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

OK, no field reset. Gotcha. How about a recap from AB occasionally? Is he still there or did he leave with the truck.

dara2K said...

Jeffie, it's Martinsville...you're suppose to be pi$$ed! Now we're racin' boyz!!!!! :-)

rich said...

24 running fastest laps right now

ri88girl said...

hard to tell but I think the 88 is next to go a lap down

ri88girl said...

never mind

Beating A Dead Horse said...

Waiting on a recap so I'll know wth is going on in Martinsville.

Anyone but TB in the tech center.

I hate it for Junior, but he is holding the wheel there.

red said...

well, i'm guessing dale just wants to wreck it big enough so he can climb in the copter and go home.

can't say i'd blame him one bit. end of his season can't come fast enough for that team.

rich said...

think 88 had another cut tire

ri88girl said...

rodger that red

David said...

Someone really needs to question this Jr-Hendrick relationship. Its a pretty significant story considering all the fuss that was made when he announced it 2 years ago...

Montoya complaining about brake fade. Gonna be a long rest of day

Vicky D said...

Poor Jr. and we see TB's manicure again!!!

David said...

Red, Jr was on For Race Fans Only the other night and actually said he is not just looking for the season to end because since they don't have their stuff together they want to have some more time to get things right before heading to Daytona next year.

Dot said...

Well, there went Spencer's pick.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

JPM in second. Fireworks, anyone? Will it even be covered when/if it happens or will the camera cut elsewhere.

rich said...

Juan will take no prisoners

Sally said...

David Newton's article on ESPN.com was REAL interesting about the whole Jr. thing. Interesting perspective.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

Here is some more JJ worship!

Daly Planet Editor said...

Whew...energy is gone. You guys feeling it?

Newracefan said...

I love JJ but how about resetting the field instead of looking at the 48 stop AGAIN

6p010535e43b89970c said...

I still think JuneBug made the WRONG move in going to HMS ...

ri88girl said...

Lance suggests Jr just lay off the breaks as the answer to no more blown tires, Jr says he was already

ARG.... said...

Does anyone know when the race was on today? I turned on ESPN and all I am seeing is short SportCenter like replays of a race. They must have showed the race live earlier today, when was it???

Sally said...

Does the media really think that if they drub fans over the head with how 'exciting' JJ is and his overwhelming run in the chase, that fans will change their minds and decide it's fascinating all of a sudden?

Vicky D said...

Maybe Jr. needs his cousin back in the pits. I think it would be a pick me up for him til the end of the year.

Andrew said...

@ARG - it's on ABC right now.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

JPM didn't get the 'don't race the chasers' memo?

Vicky D said...

ARG the race is on ABC today.

Newracefan said...

JJ wanted to give it to the 42 but had to wait until he would just lose 1 spot. Now he can see where he's beating him. Juan may regret this but who knows.

Andrew said...

@BaDH - Well, he is a Chaser so that'd be the "Don't Race Hendrick Cars" memo.

Sally said...

I guess he had Brad Keselowski missed (or ignored) the memos to not be so aggressive. thank goodness!

Dot said...

@ Andrew, too funny.

ARG... said...

@Andrew, I have checked ESPN and CBS, all I see is replays and lots of commercials.

Are you saying there is a live race going on? Why don't they show it to us?

Vicky D said...

Jimmie Johnson all the time today.

Vicky D said...

ARG the race is on ABC not CBS or ESPN.

Beating A Dead Horse said...

That was the 'put jj back in the lead' debris caution. I know race control is OT, but...

rich said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Beating A Dead Horse said...

OK, other than the ticker, who has NO CLUE where their fav driver is right now??
1 minute ago from web


ALL of us!!

Vicky D said...

Have we heard from any of the pit reporters why Biffle was a lap down? Oh yeah, he's OUT of the chase so they won't talk about it.

red said...

so, since my driver is toast (again), i'm turning off prn and i'm going to try just watching the race w/no radio and no leaderboards. (i can't give up twitter or else i'll be completely lost!)

let's see how much i don't know by the end.

but i'm pretty certain i'll know all about how the 48 is doing today. . .

Newracefan said...

Vicky, 48 passed him and lapped the 16. Is's not his best track

And another caution with no field reset FAIL

red said...

is it just me or has there been more dead air today? the 88 pit stop was just a long visual w/no talking and now i'm "hearing the silence" more and more. not really long pauses, just at random times when no one seems to know what to say to make what they say match what we're being shown.

Dot said...

Two for the price of one. I wouldn't want to be at the Penske team meeting.

David said...

JPM and Pattie complaining 48 is speeding on exit trying to figure out how they can beat the 42 out so badly

red said...

did espn "invent" the single car pit stop concept? is that why we can't have a triple-screen anymore?

(yeah, i'm degenerating to sarcasm now . . .)

Beating A Dead Horse said...

There is a race in progress that needs to be called by the PXP man in the booth. But the booth is just babbling about any subject that crosses their individual minds. It is just not happening today. I am prepared to start beating the drum for some fresh blood in motorsports broadcasting. They are out there somewhere screaming to be heard and we need them.

6p010535e43b89970c said...

NASCAR.com is saying Truex gets the lucky dog ...


That's not fair ...


HE caused the caution

Daly Planet Editor said...

I have been watching that. It has to be the curve of pit road. Last time they were here, they tried triple split and it was horrible.

This is not much better.

ri88girl said...

please...who is the last car on the lead lap?

Beating A Dead Horse said...

Anydamthing but green flag racing.

red said...

thanks, jd: i had a nagging 'remembery" that there was something loopy about the pit stop coverage here but i forgot about the sharp angles here.

but it's so tough to try & watch.

Newracefan said...

Oh dear lord, please 44 and 48 on pit road. There is RACING going on people. Alright I'm going to start watching the little pit command circles to see the race

David said...

JD, wasn't that FOX's excuse in March? With this pit road it is "impossible" to do triple splits?

Beating A Dead Horse said...

ARG, you still here? Have you figured out those excerpts of racing IS the race?

Newracefan said...

Sorry that's 42 and 48 but you get the drift

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 503   Newer› Newest»